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Have you ever known a killer? Lived next door to one, or worked in the same office as one? I haven’t, but I know people who have, and their stories all share a familiar refrain: “He seemed like such a normal guy.” They always seem baffled that the person they knew — yes, perhaps a little strange, a little isolated, but still — could turn around and do something monstrous without neon-bright warning signals going off first. So if the line between mediocrity and murder is so thin, what pushes those killers next door over the edge?
Author and Flosser emeritus John Green has a story to tell regarding that very question, one I found so compelling I wanted to share it. (A little history: back in college I did a kind of video oral history of people’s teenage experiences, and had all my friends tell me their wildest high school stories. I got a lot of great stories about pranks, sweethearts and hormonal hi-jinks, but had no idea that John would come out with such a strange and disturbing tale when he sat down in front of my camera one evening.) One caveat: the story contains, shall we say, some mature themes.
Put yourself in John’s position: would you feel guilty?
Update: Here’s a link to New York Times article about the killing.
Comments (22)
Comment
Wow……..how chilling is that? I guess I’d always wonder whether the things I said pushed him over the edge. They probably didn’t, he probably had more deep seated issues than that but I’d always wonder if what I said played a role.
posted by womthang on 12-10-2007 at 7:25 am
I lived in a town adjacent to Bath, Ohio — the home town of Jeffery Daumer. As a matter of fact, I went to Revere High School, same as he did; however, I graduated eight years later. He is our most famous/infamous alumni.
Anyhow, I recall as a small child a minor incident at the local mall involving Jeff. He was there with two friends and appeared to be extremely intoxicated. I think this was somewhere around 1977-1978. I recall his collar length blond hair, his dark rimmed glasses, and his lanky appearance. He was dancing around, making all sorts of noise. My parents and I walked by the group and he spoke to me — “Hey little man!” Then he and his two friends went back to making noise, jumping, and flailing his arms. I recall my dad telling me and my brother that those guys would grow up to be losers, and that we should in no way, shape , or form, ever act like that — especially in public. Dad has always been a good judge of character.
For some reason, this little encounter registered with me. So when I saw the images of the guy responsible for several brutal slayings in Wisconsin on television several years later in the early nineties, I had a weird feeling of deja vu. And it especially set in when they flashed his high school picture.
Not dramatic by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s been my only brush with infamy of which I’m aware.
posted by jchoma on 12-10-2007 at 7:52 am
When I was in the Navy at Great Lakes (North Chicago) back in ‘85-’86, a guy who lived in the floor above me went on a rampage at the Electronics Tech school, killing one man and wounding a couple others. I didn’t know him, but I remember being on watch at the entrance the next night, when they brought him in so that they could remove items from his room. Standing there half asleep, 3 a.m. or whenever it was, and all of a sudden a bunch of vehicles drive up and all kinds of officers come tumbling out with this guy in tow. He looked at me for a second on his way by, and I remember thinking that it was the first time (that I knew) that I had been eye-to-eye with a murderer. I was 18 or 19 at the time, so it really made an impression on me about what some people were like. Scary.
posted by Sandy on 12-10-2007 at 8:43 am
I used to live in an old aprtment building where we had a large common hallway/atrium. There was this weird old dude who was very odd. And when you passed him in the hall or even on the stairs, he would back up agaist the wall and kind of hug it as he walked. It was bizarre. We all just ‘knew’ he was a a serial killer. And I always vowed that when the news vans came by to interview us, I would say, I knew he was a killer all along……
posted by qt314159265 on 12-10-2007 at 8:46 am
Wow, that’s insane. In John’s place, I don’t know that I’d feel guilty. Definitely shocked, and maybe I’d take a look back and say “Yea, maybe the signs were there,” but not guilty. I agree with what John said, that IM and the whole internet thing in general can make a person seem vastly different than they are in real life. It’s hard to tell when weird is just quirky weird, or ax murderer weird.
posted by nutmeag on 12-10-2007 at 8:49 am
I can imagine your friend feeling bad once he realized he was making fun of someone when they probably needed help, but it really wasn’t his fault, and as a kid himself, he could not have known.
My uncle lives in a duplex, and many years ago a guy lived on the other side that he would chat with. Whenever we visited my uncle, sometimes the guy would talk to us if we were hanging out on the porch, but but always through his screen door. Sometimes he would give my uncle a ride for work or on a grocery store run.
One morning, my uncle comes home after a night of partying, and he’s so tired he just flops down on his couch and goes to sleep. He doesn’t see his neighbor the next few days but he doesn’t think anything about it. Then, he’s coming home from work later in the week, and sees a bunch of police cars around his house. Turns out, his neighbor had a couple of friends over, but then shot them both and fled. The bodies had lain in the house for all those days… in fact, they were lying on a couch up against the wall where my uncle went to sleep the night they were likely killed!
As far as I know, the guy was never caught…
posted by tona b. on 12-10-2007 at 9:48 am
Some interesting corrections to the story, which show how poorly memory works: The young man’s name was Sam Manzie (not Sam Mayzie); he strangled his victim impulsively and did not murder him with an axe; and Sam was only 12 or 13 when I first met him (I was 14). He was 15 when he committed the murder and is now 10 years into a 70-year sentence. The man who abused Sam received five year in prison.
When I told that story in 1999 or 2000, I misremembered many details that have since been corrected by reading accounts of the case online. I still think a lot about Sam and wish him peace.
posted by John Green on 12-10-2007 at 10:18 am
I can’t see a link or video. Am I missing something?
posted by Lori on 12-10-2007 at 11:05 am
When I was in 6th grade we had to do a project with the students in 4th grade. Each 6th grader was paired with a 4th grader and we had to make a Halloween diorama. I was matched with a boy named Jesse.
A few years ago he was sent to prison for aggravated murder. His parents had sent him to a home in Utah for kids with behavioral problems and when he was 17 he killed a counselor with an aluminum bat while trying to escape.
posted by Zach on 12-10-2007 at 11:49 am
when i was little, under age 9 for sure, there was a couple we went to church with who had children who’s ages matched up with those of me and my older sister. thus, we spent time with that family, having dinner and playing. my older sister was over there more than me. i remember being uncomfortable in their home, and not really liking the father of the house. the father ended up strangling the mother after she filed for divorce. it was really weird finding out, because i had always known something wasn’t right.
posted by no name to protect the family on 12-10-2007 at 1:29 pm
I would love to see more of these kinds of videos.
posted by Hope on 12-10-2007 at 4:10 pm
Zach,
Where are you from?
A few years ago this kid who went to my highschool (Brandywine in Wilmington, DE) got sent to a school in Utah and murdered his counseleor. We have to be talking about the same guy.
posted by Laura on 12-10-2007 at 4:12 pm
Definitely the same guy, Laura.
He and I were at Tatnall in Wilmington. He switched schools some time after I left.
It was weird seeing his picture in the News Journal.
posted by Zach on 12-10-2007 at 5:20 pm
my former boyfriends mother is dennis rader’s cousin.
posted by name withheld on 12-10-2007 at 5:47 pm
My ex-boyfriend was babysat by serial killer John Robinson, who had one of the most twisted cases that I have ever heard of exposed back in 2000. A good synopsis of the story can be found on CrimeLibrary.com but basically he sought out young women over the internet, murdered them, and then sealed them in barrels all around his property.
posted by anonymous on 12-10-2007 at 10:52 pm
Yeah, that’s crazy, Zach.
I didn’t recognize the picture of the kid, even though he was just a few years behind me. I had never seen him around school before. It was weird looking in my yearbook and seeing a murderer, though.
posted by Laura on 12-10-2007 at 11:25 pm
Laura, I also knew the key witness in the Capano murder trial, Capano’s other mistress. She worked at my school.
posted by Zach on 12-10-2007 at 11:55 pm
My husband plays in a rock band and was scouting for jobs in local bars (really). In one place he said the owner was kind of a strange guy - he was talking himself up as this great entrepreneur when clearly the bar was a real hole. His wife worked nights as a nurse. He said he got the money for the bar in an insurance settlement from a fire in which his first had wife died. A few weeks after that he made the headlines for knocking his current wife unconscious and driving their truck into a river, in which he ‘miraculously’ escaped death by swimming to shore, but sadly, she did not.
He was so inept at murder that they used him as an example of what NOT to do on one of the crime shows. (He stupidly called the insurance company the same day, among other things.) He was granted a second trial recently so I won’t mention his name, but this was in upstate New York. My husband had always felt uneasy around this guy. From the other stories here, I wonder if these sickos put out some kind of vibe.
For the record, John shouldn’t really carry any guilt over this - the guy would have done it anyway. It’s a nasty world sometimes.
posted by Heebies AND jeebies on 12-11-2007 at 4:59 am
Must be something in the Delaware water.
The older brother of my best friend from high school killed his wife not too long ago.
posted by Andy on 12-11-2007 at 8:59 am
A few stories on my brushes with murder(ers).
#1- I roomed with a guy when I was in tech training in the USAF. He was kind of a jerk, very much a bully, and always looking for a fight. One night a bunch of guys snuck out and went drinking by the bay. An arguement ensued and he stabbed another troop several times. Due to the circumstances of the case he was allowed to stay in technical school while the murder was investigated. He would attend class and act angelic by day but at night would tell my friends and I that he killed a man and we would be next if we “got in his way”. Quite discomforting to have to room with a murderer. Eventually he got taken away and went to prison but I don’t know anything more.
#2- Another USAF buddy, years later, told me this story… He was a “wild child” in the small Texas town where he was raised and always causing trouble. Long story short his older sister had a boyfriend that would dare my friend into doing stupid things (which he would usually do). One such dare was to steal the bug zapper off the porch of the local “old crazy guy”. He waited until late at night and snuck up to the guys house. He grabbed the zapper but the “old crazy guy” was awake and chased him out of the house. As my friend jumped into the boyfriend’s pickup truck and they sped away the “old crazy guy” shouted obscenities and fired a shotgun in their direction. Next morning this same guy goes into the Luby’s in Kileen Texas and offs a bunch of people. My friend always said he felt guilty for sending the guy on a rampage.
#3- Lastly, while not a murder, I went to grade school/junior high at a New York City school in Harlem where the kids that raped the central park jogger also were schooled. These were the punks that, when captured, simply said by way of explanation “aww, we was just wildin’” as though it were all a game. They didn’t kill the victim but I will confirm that these were some stone cold evil SOBs. I mention it here because it seemed to me that these guys had the propensity for murder if the conditions were right (wrong?). Seems to me that some people are just wired different.
posted by L1 on 12-11-2007 at 9:00 am
Zach, you’re on a roll with these DE murders.
The Capano stuff completely slipped my mind. My parents tell me that when I was little I went to his niece’s birthday party and he was there- I have no memory of this, though.
My Dad also had delivered to his house a bunch of times. He points it out to me whenever we drive by. creeeeepy.
posted by Laura on 12-11-2007 at 9:32 am
damn…
posted by v on 12-11-2007 at 7:38 pm