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You might have noticed from an earlier post that I’m a bit of a Disney buff. This is kind of out of character for me, to be honest, because I’m not a huge fan of happily ever after. I like movie endings that are unexpected. After doing a little research, though, I realized that maybe fairy tales and I are a perfect match: those Disney endings where the prince and the princess end up blissfully married don’t really happen in the original stories. To make sure kids go home happy, not horrified, Disney usually has to alter the endings. Read on for the original endings to a couple of Disney classics (and some more obscure tales).
1. Cinderella
Don’t break out your violins for this gal just yet. All that cruelty poor Cinderella endured at the hands of her overbearing stepmother might have been well deserved. In the oldest versions of the story, the slightly more sinister Cinderella actually kills her first stepmother so her father will marry the housekeeper instead. Guess she wasn’t banking on the housekeeper’s six daughters moving in or that never-ending chore list.
2. Sleeping Beauty
In the original version of the tale, it’s not the kiss of a handsome prince that wakes Sleeping Beauty, but the nudging of her newborn twins. That’s right. While unconscious, the princess is impregnated by a monarch and wakes up to find out she’s a mom twice over. Then, in true Ricki Lake form, Sleeping Beauty’s “baby’s daddy” triumphantly returns and promises to send for her and the kids later, conveniently forgetting to mention that he’s married. When the trio is eventually brought to the palace, his wife tries to kill them all, but is thwarted by the king. In the end, Sleeping Beauty gets to marry the guy who violated her, and they all live happily ever after.
3. Snow White
At the end of the original German version penned by the brothers Grimm, the wicked queen is fatally punished for trying to kill Snow White. It’s the method she is punished by that is so strange – she is made to dance wearing a pair of red-hot iron shoes until she falls over dead.
4. The Little Mermaid
You’re likely familiar with the Disney version of the Little Mermaid story, in which Ariel and her sassy crab friend, Sebastian, overcome the wicked sea witch, and Ariel swims off to marry the man of her dreams. In Hans Christian Andersen’s original tale, however, the title character can only come on land to be with the handsome prince if she drinks a potion that makes it feel like she is walking on knives at all times. She does, and you would expect her selfless act to end with the two of them getting married. Nope. The prince marries a different woman, and the Little Mermaid throws herself into the sea, where her body dissolves into seam foam.
Now here are four more fairy tales you might not be familiar with, but you might have trouble forgetting.
1. The King Who Wished to Marry His Daughter
What It’s Like: Cinderella, with an incestuous twist
The King’s wife dies and he swears he will never marry again unless he finds a woman who fits perfectly into his dead Queen’s clothes. Guess what? His daughter does! So he insists on marrying her. Ew. Understandably, she has a problem with this and tries to figure out how to avoid wedding dear old dad. She says she won’t marry him until she gets a trunk that locks from outside and inside and can travel over land and sea. He gets it, but she says she has to make sure the chest works. To prove it, he locks her inside and floats her in the sea. Her plan works: she just keeps floating until she reaches another shore. So she escapes marrying her dad, but ends up working as a scullery maid in another land… from here you can follow the Cinderella story. She meets a prince, leaves her shoe behind, he goes around trying to see who it belongs to. The End.
2. The Lost Childen
What It’s Like: Hansel & Gretel meets Saw 2
This French fairy tale starts out just like Hansel & Gretel. A brother and sister get lost in the woods and find themselves trapped in cages, getting plumped up to be eaten. Only it’s not a wicked witch, it’s the Devil and his wife. The Devil makes a sawhorse for the little boy to bleed to death on (seriously!) and then goes for a walk, telling the girl to get her brother situated on the sawhorse before he returned. The siblings pretend to be confused and ask the Devil’s wife to demonstrate how the boy should lay on the sawhorse; when she shows them they tie her to it and slit her throat. They steal all of the Devil’s money and escape in his carriage. He chases after them once he discovers what they’ve done, but he dies in the process. Yikes.
3. The Juniper Tree
What It’s Like: Every stepchild’s worst nightmare
Cannibalism, murder, decapitation… freakiness abounds left and right in this weird Grimm story. A widower gets remarried, but the second wife loathes the son he had with his first wife because she wants her daughter to inherit the family riches. So she offers the little boy an apple from inside a chest. When he leans over to get it, she slams the lid down on him and chops his head off. Note: if you’re trying to convince your child to eat more fruits and veggies, do not tell them this story. Well, the woman doesn’t want anyone to know that she killed the boy, so she puts his head back on and wraps a handkerchief around his neck to hide the fact that it’s no longer attached. Her daughter ends up knocking his head off and getting blamed for his death. To hide what happened, they chop up the body and make him into pudding, which they feed to his poor father. Eventually the boy is reincarnated as a bird and he drops a stone on his stepmother’s head, which kills her and brings him back to life.
4. Penta of the Chopped-off Hands
What It’s Like: Um…you tell us
These old fairy tales sure do enjoy a healthy dose of incest. In this Italian tale, the king’s wife dies and he falls in love with Penta… his sister. She tries to make him fall out of love with her by chopping off her hands. The king is pretty upset by this; he has her locked in a chest and thrown out to sea. A fisherman tries to save her, but Penta is so beautiful that his jealous wife has her thrown back out to sea. Luckily, Penta is rescued by a king (who isn’t her brother). They get married and have a baby, but the baby is born while the king is away at sea. Penta tries to send the king the good news of the baby, but the jealous fisherman’s wife intercepts the message and changes it to say that Penta gave birth to a puppy. A puppy?! The evil wife then constructs another fake message, this time from the king to his servants, and says that Penta and her baby should be burned alive. OK, long story short: the king figures out what the jealous wife is up to and has her burned. Penta and the king live happily ever after. I can’t really figure out what the moral of this tale is. Chopping hands off? Giving birth to a dog? I just don’t get it. Help me out here, people.
OK, there has to be a ton of other creepy fairy tales out there that you would never read to your kids to lull them off to a peaceful slumber. Let’s hear ‘em!
A tangent —
I have a theory that the reason a girl’s viriginity at marriage was historically so important is because it was a way for the father to show he had never molested the daughter.
That would also tie into the idea that an unmarried woman who was raped had dishonored the family’s name. There was no longer proof that the father had not violated the daughter.
posted by Elizabeth on 12-14-2007 at 4:37 pm
Yes yes yes! When I read Brothers Grimm, I was astonished at the base cruelty and downer-ness of the stories.
I believe their version of Sleeping Beauty ended with “And they all lived happily until they died.” Cheery!
posted by Johnny Cat on 12-14-2007 at 4:44 pm
Maybe kids back then were made of stronger stuff. They weren’t always PC and not everyone made the team. They died young and started work when they should have been starting school. Today these stories are horrible, but maybe back then they weren’t…um as bad. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve read the Brothers Grimm and it kept me up at night.
posted by Sarah on 12-14-2007 at 5:11 pm
“The Girl Who Trod on a Loaf” by Hans Christian Anderson.
It’s rather long, but to summarize: there’s a proud and cruel little girl named Inge who likes to torture bugs by pulling their wings off and such, and is just generally wicked. She is sent by her patroness to visit her parents (of whose humble origins she is embarassed), and bring them a loaf of bread. She dresses in her finest, but on her way comes across a patch of mud. Rather than ruin her fancy shoes, she puts the bread in the mud and steps on it, only to sink into the ground through various levels of…Hell, I guess, in which she sees humans in varying degrees of misery. She is hungry but unable to break off any of the loaf (oh, did I mentioned her foot is permanently attached to it?) because her body has gone stiff and she cannot move. She is also, at some point, covered in the bugs and flies she has tortured, but they of course cannot fly away since they have no wings.
There is some redemption at the end, I think. After ages of torment, she’s penitent, and turns into a bird or something. It seems to be the gruesome bits that have stuck in my memory.
posted by MissBetteNoire on 12-14-2007 at 5:19 pm
Maybe these stories were based on real events, retold and changed in many details to make them jucier. Or maybe the tellers got several stories mixed up. Not much was written down in those days so you couldn’t look a story up, you just had to improvise.
posted by Alice Johnson on 12-14-2007 at 5:35 pm
In the Brothers Grimm, the story of Ashenpudle, (I know I’m probably not spelling that correctly) also known as the Ash-Maiden, is another version of the Cinderella tale. When the first step-sister can’t fit into the slipper she cuts off her toes. Because the prince is oblivious to this development, poetry spewing birds alert him to the trail of blood left by the missing toes. He returns the first step-sister, to which the second step sister responds by cutting off her heel to fit into the slipper.
Evidently the prince was not too swift(could tie back to the incestuous Fairy Tale relationships previously mentioned. His parents were obviously related! because the poetry birds have to alert him once again to the trail of blood.
Everything works out for the prince and the Ash-Maiden and they live happily ever after. However, post wedding the step-mother and step-sisters are not so lucky. Ala’ Alfred Hitchcock, the birds come back and peck out the ladies’ eyes as punishment.
For some reason, this story didn’t give me nightmares. What was more likely to keep me awake was the prayer,
“Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep,
If I should DIE before I wake,
I play the Lord my soul to take.”
Whoever thought that was an appropriate bedtime thought for a child to have??
posted by bzzyb on 12-14-2007 at 6:01 pm
In one of my college English classes, we studied folk and fairy tales. We learned of one in particular that was quite interesting: Tam and Cam, a Vietnamese version of Cinderella. At the end, The Cinderella character boils her wicked stepsister alive and turns her into a delicious sauce, which is given to the wicked stepmother. Stepmother eats the sauce made of her daughter and when told that she has been eating her daughter, the stepmother dies instantly from shock.
It is actually kind of a neat story for those of us who don’t like the sappy endings…
posted by Rose on 12-14-2007 at 6:07 pm
I’m thinking the same person who thought that bedtime prayer was appropriate also thought of telling children “Don’t let the bed bugs bite!” just before they went to sleep. Persoanlly it gave me nightmares of bugs crawling all over me every night. It was beyond my mother’s comprehension why I was a child insomniac.
posted by Lola on 12-14-2007 at 8:14 pm
What about “Rock-a-bye baby on the treetop when the wind blows the cradle will rock when the bough breaks the cradle will fall and down will come baby cradle and all” Even when I was a little girl I thought this nursery rhyme was sick!
posted by Melinda on 12-14-2007 at 9:33 pm
I read the original Snow White in an illustrated book. (The part about the iron shoes and dancing until she drops dead part, oddly enough wasn’t illustrated, but rather was a Post Script of some sort at the end of the book).
Somehow I wasn’t scarred for life by it.
posted by Angeline on 12-14-2007 at 9:49 pm
I know it’s not a fairy tale, but Disney did do a version of it (which I have not and will never watch); the Hunchback of Notre Dame.
It is one of my favourite books of all time, and the ending, though sad, is awesome. I’m not going to ruin it for anyone who’s planning on reading it, but it was awesome, sad, and the book was much more realistic in terms of relationships than I’m sure a version Disney put out would be, simply for the fact that Disney caters to a target audience of children, and this book is DEFINITELY not a child’s book.
posted by Arjun on 12-15-2007 at 12:06 am
Igmar Bergman’s movie, The Virgin Spring, is based on a Swedish medieval folk tale. Story goes like:
A Christian man sends one of his 2 daughters on an errand. She is blond and naive. The other sister is dark-haired and pagan, and jealous of her sister (who is obviously the family favorite) and so puts a frog in the blond sister’s bread and makes a weird prayer.
The blond girl comes across 2 guys and a little boy in the woods, and invites them to have a little picnic with her. While they are eating, the bread is cut and the frog jumps out. Somehow this signals the guys into rape mode, and they ravage and kill the girl. They tear off her clothes and raid her bags, and leave her body, naked on the forest floor.
The girl’s killers wind up coming to her family’s house for lodging. They try to sell them the daughter’s dress! The family then know that these men killed the daughter, and the father ambushes them soon after, killing them. But then he goes on a rampage, and kills the little boy as well (who helplessly saw the rape and murder), kills several goats, and tears down a young tree with his bare hands!
The dark-haired daughter repents her part in her sister’s death and converts. The father repents having done revenge, when Christianity says to “turn the other cheek”. The family then goes to look for her body, and when they find her, the father proclaims that he will build a church where they found her. When they lift her, a spring burts forth where her head was resting.
the end!
Also, The Juniper Tree was made into a movie, actually, the singer Björk is in it!
posted by tona b. on 12-15-2007 at 12:35 am
Reading the Grimm tales made me not like Disney. The originals are so much more interesting.
posted by MN on 12-15-2007 at 8:03 am
Have you read Princess Bubble? she does not find a prince but ends up happy. I copied a little about the book b/c I thougth this book was really great!
Princess Bubble stars a princess who is confused by the traditional fairy tale messages that say she must find her “prince” before she can live “happily ever after.” Princess Bubble dons her “thinking crown” to research traditional fairy tales, interviews married girlfriends, and even takes counsel from her mother, who advises her to sign up at FindYourPrince.com. With a little help from her fairy godmother (this is still a fairy tale after all), Ms. Bubble discovers that “living happily ever after” is not about finding a prince. “True happiness,” the book reveals, “is found by loving God, being kind to others, and being comfortable with who you are already!”
posted by Cannon Rives on 12-15-2007 at 9:54 am
Of course Hansel and Gretel and Little Red Riding Hood have to be horrible. How else do you keep your young kids from wandering off into the woods?
posted by Kate on 12-15-2007 at 10:43 am
You know, I have heard that the Bros. Grimm did not originally intend they’re stories for children. However, for some ungodly reason, Parents at the time thought their chldren would enjoy them. I know my four-year old would love to hear a story about birds crushing the heads of evil step-mothers with millstones any time. Anyway The Grimm brothers decided to tone them down a bit afterward. At least, thats what I’ve heard.
posted by Gilbert on 12-15-2007 at 1:10 pm
OK, the reason the terrible tales were thought to be something to tell kids is that they were often an attempt by parents to get messages across to their kids about “if you do thus and such, thus and such will happen to you” or that kind of thing. Not always well thought-out attempts. I also think it was sort of like sitting around the campfire telling “ghost” stories.
Now, the reason virginity was so prized (and still is in some circles) is that it was the way to prove that the children the woman bore were/are actually her husband’s children. Usually in these types of societies, the men, once they married/marry a woman, kept them pretty much locked up away from other men. This is why in some countries, it’s illegal/immoral for a woman to travel away from home with anyone who is not her husband or a male relative. No way to ensure she hasn’t been unfaithful.
posted by Valentine on 12-16-2007 at 12:27 am
Thanks so much for the stories! I have an old book of Grimm’s fairy tales but even they are not as gruesome as this. I always thought that the stepmothers were really exaggerated in these stories, until i met one just like them. She took the stepkid’s christmas presents for herself, gave away their pets, and calls the kid fat (& this kid is only 9 & not even slightly overweight.)
posted by zoe on 12-16-2007 at 10:47 am
Disney has ruined myth in America. These tales were real in that people did evil things and people actually died! Disney has sanitized myth and eliminated death except as a joke. Thats why these old tales are so compelling. Disney has also ruined copyright laws forever. By paying off congress to extend Mickeys corporate copyrights into perpetuity. It sure would have been hard for Disney to make Snow White had she never entered into the public domaine! GOOGLE IS EVIL!
posted by Anti-Disney on 12-16-2007 at 12:44 pm
Man, the Wicked Queen dancing until she dies in red hot iron shoes would be great to watch! Better than Elaine on Seinfeld!
:D
posted by Moon on 12-16-2007 at 5:54 pm
This site has links to many of the original Grimm tales and the Struvelpeter stories. There’s one in particular where a boy’s parents tell him not to suck his thumb or they’ll be cut off. He doesn’t listen and that’s exactly what happens.
posted by sheena on 12-16-2007 at 6:35 pm
Hans Christian Andersen’s stories are all horrifically depressing. “The Red Shoes” is about a girl who puts on a pair of lovely red boots that force her to dance and dance and dance. She can’t take off the shoes once they’re on, so she eventually cuts off her feet to stop the dancing, and the feet just keep on dancing even once removed.
“The Snow Queen” and “The Wild Swans” are also beautiful stories that gave me nightmares when I read them as a child. A well-meaning uncle who knew I loved to read mythology books gave me the Andersen stories and possibly scarred me for life.
posted by Rachael on 12-16-2007 at 10:09 pm
These are so interesting. Im a Disney buff myself. I love it
posted by psychic readings on 12-17-2007 at 4:25 am
I don’t know if you read the graphic novel series “Fables” but they use a lot of the original fairy tales. Here’s a hint of stuff they pull - there’s only one Prince Charming - he married, and then divorced Snow white, Cinderella, and Sleeping beauty. ;)
posted by Aaron on 12-17-2007 at 4:35 am
The Brave Tin Soldier by HC Anderson still brings a tear to my eye. Think Toy Story meets Romeo and Juliet. A one-legged tin soldier who lives in a child’s toy collection falls in love with a paper ballerina doll. A goblin jack-in-the-box warns him not to long for what he cannot have, but he pays no mind. In trying to be with the ballerina he falls out the window, goes down the drain, is eaten by a fish, and by chance is brought back into the same house when the fish is bought at the market by the boy’s mom. Then for no reason the boy throws the soldier into the oven, and somehow the ballerina winds up in there too. In the end they both die in the fire, the soldier leaving only a lump of tin shaped like a heart, and the ballerina only her corsage. I think I’ll cry now ~_~
posted by Grumby on 12-17-2007 at 4:36 am
Igmar Bergman’s movie, The Virgin Spring, is based on a Swedish medieval folk tale.
This film is also what “last house on the left” was based on.
posted by satan on 12-17-2007 at 4:38 am
personally i think people as a whole has become so obsessed with apperaring nice and friendly, it has completly changed these stories of everyday happenings into something macabre. think about it, worse things happen nowadays. people have become soft and self-centered, always trying to be PC.
posted by dewaldt on 12-17-2007 at 4:47 am
Famous Romanian story:
Mother (goat) lives alone with three kids. For some reason she has to leave, instructs the kids to not open the door to anyone. But big bad wolf comes, tricks the older 2 kids to open the door (third, smaller, hides). The door comes in, kills the older 2 brothers, ! cuts heads off, displays them in window !, and smear the blood all over the walls, then leaves.
The mother goat returns, see the disaster, gets crazy by grief, but is comforted by the smaller kid that survived hidden. Then it decides to get revenge, goes after the wolf, and disembowels him (alive) then hills him.
Tell me this isn’t weird; but when told when I was young, it didn’t generate any nightmares, it was all business as usual. The Andersen’s “Matchstick Girl” still gives me the creeps though.
posted by Alex on 12-17-2007 at 4:51 am
That’s odd I was sure that The Little Mermaid was taken from Rusalka as it has more elements similar to the The Little Mermaid such as loosing her voice. And although the Hans Christian Andersen version has many similarities to the Antonín Dvořák version they have different origins.
posted by Shmuel on 12-17-2007 at 5:13 am
My theory of these kinds of stories is that this sort of behaviour was probably quite common once. Okay people didn’t turn into birds on a regular basis, but butchering the family hog was probably considered entertainment. Its not a far leap think of some bratty little kid getting hog tied as punishment. As far a incest and murder. I’m not sure people quite understood the ramifications. They did think of different racial groups as beings other than human, and since most of them died horrible deaths from the plague or a venereal disease, gruesome death was probably quite normal and expected. Incest? It was before mass transit and people really didn’t travel. I’m sure there was a really tight gene pool back then. And Master of the house and all, I think they assumed certain privileges. But I’m just guessing.
posted by Dennis on 12-17-2007 at 5:16 am
I have a book of Oscar Wilde stories - they are mostly pretty horrific too. I bought it for a child but ended up keeping it when I read a few, not suitable for children I’d say!
posted by Emma on 12-17-2007 at 5:25 am
The Juniper Tree seems to be the craziest of all these. I have comments about all of these stories however if I said everything I’m thinking it’ll take me forever to get it all typed out and take up waaay to much space! So about it I’m just going to say wow. haha… I had no idea about a lot of it.
However did you know, that in Hansel and Gretel, it’s supposedly based on a true story? Except that instead of the happily ever after, they get plumped up, cooked and ate. The end. Sad huh?
posted by Brandie on 12-17-2007 at 5:55 am
Take a look at this related post on
Disney and Sex, Witchcraft, Killing, etc.
markhere.blogspot.com
posted by Avec Frites on 12-17-2007 at 7:14 am
I don’t know if anyone has heard it or not, but there was a version of the three little pigs where at the end, the wolf can’t get in the stone house so he decides to drop down through the chimney and the smart pig figures he would do somethings like this, so he’s ready. He had put a big pot of boiling broth. Down comes the wolf and the lock the top on and make wolf stew. Yum…there’s also a French version of little red ridding hood that is all about the wolf trying to get it on with Red. Good stories
posted by Tweekville on 12-17-2007 at 7:23 am
Okay a little bit of history. Until very recently the royal houses of most European nations were an incestuous lot. They married their sisters, cousins, fathers, mothers whatever in a bid to concentrate power and money in the hands of the few, and to broker peace among nations. “Childhood” as we think of it is a modern creation. Invented during the industrial Revolution at about the same time they invented weekends, 40 hour work weeks and child labor laws. Children back when these stories were written were considered little adults and were protected from nothing. They were put to work as soon as they could understand and physically do what they were told.
Consider this a marriage was not considered binding until “consumated” and the Catholic Church raised the age of consent to 7 years old in the 1500s. Child brides and grooms were not uncommon. Say two families had wealth and wished to combine it. They Would promise a 1st born son to a 1st born daughter. If it so happened that these people were born at significantly different times so be it. Thus you could easily have a 15 year old girl marrying an infant boy to seal the deal.
The giving birth to animals was a sign of witchcraft. Witches mating with “Satan” would supposedly give birth to all maner of animals. Thus the burn them alive comand.
These are tales from a different era and different places they come from people that we have to really stretch our imaginations to understand.
posted by Sherry on 12-17-2007 at 7:27 am
I seem to remember an HC Andersen tale (”The Storks” ?) where a boy is punished for throwing stones at storks by having them bring him a new baby brother who is already dead. Then there’s “Little Ole” - the cute little scamp who brings sleep and sweet dreams to good children. Which is all very well until Andersen introduces Ole’s identical twin brother who behaves in exactly the same way except that the children he visits don’t actually, er, wake up.
posted by csrster on 12-17-2007 at 7:38 am
Aw, Emma, but Oscar Wilde is so _good_. ;) And there are some stories that are totally child-appropriate. Like the one about the girl killing the moutain lion. It’s like the original grrl power story XP
I used to have a giant book of Grimm’s fairy tales. I could never read Anderson’s after reading the aforementioned one about the Tin Soldier. XP ;.; so sad.
What about that Grim story where the queen can’t talk because of some kind of family curse that requires her to knit dresses out of feathers/flowers (I forget which) to free her sisters from the curse, and the stepmother kills her firstborn and smears it’s blood on her lips so it looks like she killed and ate her own children o.O; Then, as they’re about to hang her for the murder, she almost finishes the last outfit (seriously, they’re hanging you and you’re *knitting?*) except for the last sleeve and so all her sisters are restored to full health (except one, who now has a swan’s wing instead of an arm for the rest of her life. I bet *she* lived happily ever after XP) and she can now talk. So she incriminates the stepmother who is hanged in her stead.
How uplifting!
posted by Ashley on 12-17-2007 at 7:49 am
Elizabeth, that’s a fascinating idea. Do you have any evidence or real-world suggestion that it might be so?
I guess an intact hymen proves both that the father didn’t dishonor the family by raping the daughter, and also that the daughter didn’t dishonor the family by having intercourse before marriage, or maybe even having some other children before, who knows.
Either way I guess people would conclude the family would not be fit for polite society.
(If only they knew what goes on in polite society!)
posted by Ralph on 12-17-2007 at 8:35 am
2 things:
no, oscar wilde’s fairy tales are not meant for children–they’re satirical.
i was raised on grimm’s fairy tales. we had the book of all of them and my mom would read them to me every night, and write the date by each one as we read it so we wouldn’t skip any! i loved them.
my favorite was “the three snake leaves”. in it, a young man has to pass trials to marry a princess. when they get married, he has to promise that he’ll be buried with her when she dies, even if he’s still alive. within a year, she dies and he is locked up with her dead body in an underground vault with three days’ worth of bread and wine. he is grief-stricken, but then he sees two snakes slithering towards her body. he cuts one in pieces, whereupon the other snake escapes. it returns shortly with three leaves. it puts the leaves on the cuts, and the first snake is revived whole. they slither off, leaving the leaves. the man puts the leaves on his wife’s eyes and mouth and she is revived. they knock and are released. however, she’s changed and doesn’t love him anymore. they take a sea voyage where she falls in love with the sea captain and they plot to kill the man and tell her father (the king) he fell overboard in a storm. a servant overhears this and tells the man, who devises a plot to escape the boat early. the princess and the captain think their plan succeeds, while the man actually returns home faster than their ship can, and he tells the king all about the plan. he hides in a closet while the princess and the captain tell their dramatic story, at the end of which the king calls the man out of the closet, kills the princess (his daughter) and the captain, and makes the man heir to the throne.
posted by emily on 12-17-2007 at 8:50 am
My country had a bunch of ‘em… here’s a few I could hardly forget:
Once upon a time there was a guy who fell in love with a girl. The girl’s father got mad of this and so he ran after the poor bum with a bolo (it’s like a machete, only scarier). The father didn’t get to kill the kid but he was successful in taking out an arm, Black Knight style. The boy flees to a faraway land, and the arm soon grew into the first banana tree (that’s why banana bunches kind of resemble hands).
In another story, which isn’t as gruesome but kinda racist (versions vary)… Bathala, the god of all gods, was making (uhm, baking?) people out of clay and then cooks them in a furnace. His first batch was cooked too quickly, and was too stale. Unsatisfied, he threw them out to a faraway place which became the land of westerners and Chinese. The second batch was cooked too long. Unsatisfied, he threw them out to a faraway place which became the land of black people, or Africa. The third batch was cooked just right, and so Bathala lets them settle in his land which is the Philippines. Yay!
posted by El Capitan on 12-17-2007 at 8:50 am
As bizarre and sick and twisted as some of these stories may seem, fairy tales, in general, do have a good purpose. As G.K. Chesterton said, “Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.”
posted by Jamie Beu on 12-17-2007 at 9:15 am
This has to be the best article about fairy tales I’ve ever read! I knew Disney changed a ton about their movies, but not THAT much.
And the comments about the darker stories are fantastic. I now have to get a couple of these darker fairy tales and read them for myself. :D
posted by Deejay Knight on 12-17-2007 at 10:28 am
Seam foam?
posted by freelance editor on 12-17-2007 at 10:35 am
Elizabeth, it was more of a matter where the bride’s family had to prove not only her honor, but that any child ensuing from the marriage (especially if born shortly after) was the groom’s.
posted by Paul on 12-17-2007 at 10:43 am
You’ll find some of these and more in a wonderful book called, “Grimm’s Grimmest.”
Ashenputel, Juniper Tree are both in there . Warped stories, dark graphics - perfect for bedtime stories. /sarcasm
Not sure of the editors, but you should be able to find it on Amazon.
posted by Christopher on 12-17-2007 at 10:58 am
In my Intro. to English course, we took this one step further and analyzed the original fairy tales and their subsequent transformations. I found the following interesting:
Sleeping Beauty
The princess is pricked by a needle and unable to stop bleeding–figuratively, the blood symbolizes her menstruation. Her sleeping is a sign of her entry into the latent stage; she will only wake up when she is able to bear children.
The Little Mermaid
Uhh, my details are a little shady, but I remember the significance of Ariel losing her voice. In order for Ariel to become a real girl (with legs and a vagina), she must become subordinate and/or mute. This was followed with quite a lengthy discussion about Ursula’s penis-envy. Her tentacles and decorations are phallic, and somebody mentioned the fact that she originally ruled before King Triton.
Snow White
This one is quite heavily saturated with traditional Christian imagery and might well be taken as a re-telling of the story of Christ. Also, in the original, the seven dwarves did not exist in their traditional form–they were in Snow White’s head, thus the “burrowing.”
Little Red Riding Hood
The basket/red attire can be taken as symbols of chastity; the wolf, something of a perverted old man. LRRH is a story about a seductress, and in the originals, LRRH seduces the wolf. Also, when the hunter cuts Grandma/LRRH from the stomach, this is a symbol of re-birth and exit from the womb. LRRH has finally reached adulthood.
I can barely recall a lot of the details, but it’s important to note that the significance of these conclusions is ultimately up to the reader. Such interpretations are a hybrid of psychological and literary theory and thus greater conclusions must be made about the works as a whole.
posted by Dan on 12-17-2007 at 11:23 am
thanks for the information and happy holidays
posted by spell casting on 12-17-2007 at 11:28 am
Here’s another good one: In the Disney version, Hercules defeats Hades and he and Megera defeat live happily ever after.
In the greek myth, however, Hera casts a spell on Hercules and he then kills Megera and his children.
posted by jim d on 12-17-2007 at 11:39 am
I had forgotten how bad some fairy tales were, and when I started to read Hansel and Gretal to my grandson, I got embarrassed, and made up my own story as I went along.
posted by Harriett on 12-17-2007 at 12:37 pm
Your terrific article was stolen by the following website:
www. bspcn. com/2007/12/17/8-fairy-tales-and-their-not-so-happy-endings/
posted by SplogCop on 12-17-2007 at 12:37 pm
When I studied social history at the university we actually read books on not-so-happy fairy tales. Basically, these were not to entertain the children but to teach them such things as “if you are girl and you go to the forest by yourself you might get raped, murdered etc.”, so, don’t go. In one of the books the LRRH is dressed in red because her cloak is a symbol of blood and the wolf is actually a rapist. “If one of your parents dies and you get a step parent be nice to them or you will live to regret it” etc.
posted by Ana on 12-17-2007 at 2:19 pm
My favorite tale is one called “Paper Bag Princess”
Its about a princess who is beautiful and is going to be married to a handsome prince, but a dragon comes and destroys her clothes and castle and steals her soon-to-be-hubby.
The only thing she can find to wear is a paper bag. she goes on a hunt to find him and save him. She reaches the castle, tricks the dragon into exhaustion, and goes to save the prince.
he is disgusted that her hair is not washed, that she is filthy, and is wearing a paper bag.
she calls him a bum and and decides that she doesnt need to marry someone who is ungrateful.
Guess what book my favorite niece is getting fro christmas?
posted by MistressERS on 12-17-2007 at 2:41 pm
bzzyb Says:
“Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord my soul to keep,
If I should DIE before I wake,
I play the Lord my soul to take.”
Whoever thought that was an appropriate bedtime thought for a child to have??
—-end quote—-
Metallica
posted by Tifa on 12-17-2007 at 6:23 pm
after reading all these, I still am a big fan of happily ever after fairy tales. i get laughed at all the time.
i never believe disney stories are true, but isn’t the message ‘happily ever after’ great? Don’t you appreciate those who try to make the others happy by telling the stories in such magical ways with fantistic endings?
Life is sad enough, we need to believe living happily ever after isn’t just a myth.
yeah but i do think the original stories are way too creepy, but also interesting, sorta reflecting what was going on in ancient europe, hmm, not good to tell those to children though, let stick to the disney versions.
posted by chungy on 12-17-2007 at 7:19 pm
If you’re interested in similar themes, make sure you check out South Park episode 501 titled “Scott Tenorman Must Die.”
Sweet dreams
posted by Guywithanswers on 12-17-2007 at 7:41 pm
How about this one:
Penniless artists arrives in big city with only pocket change and some drawings.
Starts cartoon company that skyrockets with a special character who enchants the world.
Cartoon company ends up owning TV network that ran its programs.
Enriched artist gets so preoccupied with his train collecting hobby, he starts amusement park to house his real trains.
Park becomes biggest amusement name in world history.
And you have another totally impossible ending authored by Walt Disney. In his real life.
As per my site’s Disney bio.
posted by Marvan on 12-17-2007 at 7:45 pm
I love the Grimm fairy tales. The Cinderella, Little Mermaid, Hansel and Gretel, Jack and Jill and Thousand Furs (where the king plans to marry his daughter) are my favorites.
The Cinderella tale I heard was different though. In that story, Cinderella’s mother dies and her father remarries. But after unsuccessfully sabotaging Cinderella and the Prince (whom they’ve known were together all along), they lock Cindy in a closet and have the servants distract the Prince while they saw off their toes in order to fit into Cinderella’s not-glass slipper.
posted by Animefreak242 on 12-17-2007 at 10:19 pm
The original Little Mermaid hd the same sea-foam ending as yours, but along with the ‘walking on pins’ bit, she also had to cut out her own tongue (to prove how much she loved the Prince).
Hansel and Gretel: in the original where they were evil and led their step-mother away. They returned to their home using ‘bread crumbs’ and lied to the town saying that she was a witch that cast a spell on their father. When she came back days later, they burned her at the stake. …The other version just had them kill her in the woods.
I like the original versions better. Much more interesting/entertaining.
posted by Animefreak242 on 12-17-2007 at 10:26 pm
You cant forget about the original Rumpelstiltskin. At the end when they guess his name and get it right he rips himself apart limb from limb. and if she were to have gotten the name wrong the baby would have become part of the stew.
posted by physicsprocessor on 12-18-2007 at 12:11 am
Thanks Tifa for that wonderful answer. However, since I am about the same age as the boys from Metallica, and I heard that prayer when I was about four, I think maybe it’s a little older than “Enter Sandman”. ;P
posted by bzzyb on 12-18-2007 at 8:42 am
The Brothers Grimm (Jakob Grimm in particular) were actually linguists and not folklorists by profession. They went around collecting those stories as part of a linguistics project of theirs to analyze how people in different places told variations on popular stories. They were studying dialectal differences and variations in pronunciation, though the latter is lost in any mere collection of the stories.
posted by ansav on 12-18-2007 at 8:44 am
I like the originals much better as well. Disney has unfortunately filled girls’ minds with sappy–and sanitized–versions in which submissive, passive women are brutalized while waiting for the handsome prince to come save them. The original stories were filled with many examples of strong women who devised their own ways out of hardship.
I think of my 4 year old niece whose favorite thing is being a “beautiful princess” and being rescued from the dragon… and to think my intelligent (and tomboyish as a kid) sister is brainwashing this poor kid into fitting this throwback to pre-women’s movement patriarchal oppression!
Fortunately, Disney’s more recent efforts are much more palatable: Mulan, who dresses up like a boy to save her family’s honor, and ends up saving all of China; The Cheetah Girls who, despite being into pink and animal prints, deliver a message of “Grrl Power” (I don’t wanna be like Cinderella…. I can rescue myself); and so on.
posted by Techgirl on 12-18-2007 at 8:49 am
One of the stories you’re referring to is called “Allerluja” or something similar. It’s the one involving the King who wanted to marry his daughter. Most of it goes as you say but it turns out her job as a scullery maid ends up putting her right back in her father’s castle and he sees through her ruse and (oh joy!) they get married and live “happily” ever after.
If you can still find it, there’s a graphic novel called “The Big Book of Grimm” that keeps all the original endings intact.
posted by Big Al on 12-18-2007 at 12:28 pm
Along with “Fables,” which I have to admit I was drawn to because of my own interest in things like these, there are a series of books by Mercedes Lackey (who has her own serious obsession with global folklore, if you look at her larger body of works) called the 10,000 Kingdoms (I think?). They take traditional folkloric elements and give them a twist, including a force called Tradition which tends to make certain lives follow down folklore paths, if the conditions are right.
On a side note: For another story that is really gruesome, though, look up Rapunzel. I don’t think that any of the versions I’ve read of that are particularly happy…. (The prince falls from the tower and ends up losing his eyes to the thorn bushes below…..) Erg…
posted by ACute Angle on 12-18-2007 at 12:32 pm
I enjoyed reading the Grimm fairy tales, but there is nothing like a 13 book series full of fairy tales and myths from around the world.
mythfolklore.net/andrewlang/
posted by PeregrineV on 12-19-2007 at 3:24 pm
This is a great article! I also read and enjoyed the old fashioned(?) fairy tales, and thought they seemed more real, less sanitized. I guess I was just a cynical kid.
I think the violence, sadism, etc. is pretty much reflective of the times the stories were written in. Violence and sadism were not only common, they were a form of entertainment. During a history class, the teacher told us that in medieval times, an executioner who was just supposed to execute the condemned would be tossed coins from the crowd to torture the condemned or find some other way (usually shouted by the audience) to make it more interesting.
Since we’ve done away with public executions, as well as some other nasty things as a society, I’m not surprised that Disney has sanitized fairy tales. ~Maybe~ it isn’t really a violation, considering how much more enlightened our society has become?
posted by Rusty on 12-19-2007 at 5:05 pm
Most ‘fairy’ tales were actually originally meant for adults. This is oral tradition people. Sheesh.
posted by Gala on 12-19-2007 at 8:06 pm
Most fairy tale were NOT meant for adults they were cautionary tales for children And as for people preferring the “sanitized” versions we now call that denial. Let us also not forget that Walt Disney was an early Nazi sympathizer!
posted by Anti-Disney on 12-21-2007 at 12:24 pm
Another too-happy Disney adaptation is Bambi. OK, it’s sad when his mother dies, but the book is even harsher.
Bambi: A Life in the Woods
Some years ago, I read a fascinating essay on the book. While Bambi vs the Hunters occurs in the book, part of the story is the interaction between the hunting dogs and Bambi. The dogs tell of their worship of the human masters, but then Bambi comes upon the burned body of a hunter, and learns that the humans are mortal beings.
It is a complex and dark story; certainly not for little children’s enjoyment. Disney had to revise and re-revise his screenplay, eventually settling on the rather happier version that we see on-screen.
posted by Daniel Kim on 12-22-2007 at 7:25 am
The Grimm brothers were lawyers and they actually explored the countryside of Germany in their lifetimes, trying to collect as many versions of these folk tales as they could. They felt it would help them understand the spirit of the law. They then condensed many versions of the folk tales that had been passed down by word of mouth for ages into written stories.
These stories taught a message of morality in medieval Germany, and the Grimm brothers were quite the philosophers. They didn’t actually write any of the stories, but interpreted and collected. And unlike what one commenter said, they never toned them down.
posted by Erin on 12-23-2007 at 10:46 am
There’s actually a book called Deerskin that’s a spin-off of The King Who Marries His Daughter (or whatever that obscenely long name to the fairy tale is). It’s quite good, although it is a bit different than how you’ve explained it.
posted by Samantha on 12-23-2007 at 2:13 pm
Just thought I’d leave this link for anyone else who’s interested.
“Grimm’s Fairy Tales: This book contains 209 tales collected by the brothers Grimm.”
www.cs.cmu.edu/~spok/grimmtmp/
posted by Fake_Account on 12-23-2007 at 2:39 pm
The king who wishes to marry his daughter bit is quite an old archetype. Practically every European/Western culture has some retelling of this myth. And get this! There is even a Catholic saint, St. Dymphna (whose actual existence is dubious), whose father pursued her and eventually murdered her and the priest who had agreed to hide her.
Perhaps it’s a warning to young girls that, no, it isn’t all right for daddy to touch you there…
posted by Moment on 12-23-2007 at 2:50 pm
The other standard explanation for the emphasis on virginity was that virginity was the only guarantee that ones bride was not pregnant. The prospect of unwittingly raising Sombody Else’s Kid was a real horror for men through most of human history.
posted by Steve on 12-23-2007 at 3:27 pm
wow, i knew disney wasnt dealing the right stories, but i had no idea they were this dark. Now i Want to read these stories, and im plotting on how to get my hands on them. =D
posted by Hanna on 12-23-2007 at 5:42 pm
In the original book, Pinocchio, Jiminy Cricket (”the Talking Cricket”) doesn’t get to live too long. He tries to talk some sense into the kid, P gets cranky and squishes him with a hammer - What a darling little puppet. The cricket haunts him throughout the book. Having seen the movie first the squishing scene was shocking and hilarious.
posted by trojanhorse on 12-24-2007 at 1:34 am
All I have to say is wow, but I’m certainly going to try and find the last four.
posted by Em on 12-24-2007 at 9:34 am
Actually, fairy tales were originally told around campfires for adults. That’s why there’s so much incest and sex in the early versions. They weren’t meant for children to hear.
posted by Heather on 12-24-2007 at 11:24 am
If you like these, you should see/listen to Stephen Sondheim’s “Into the Woods”. It’s a musical about fairy tales. It starts with the “traditional” tales, then the second act is after “happily ever after”. It is fantastic and definitely pulls in the more horrible and gruesome aspects of fairy tales.
posted by SapphireMind on 12-25-2007 at 4:24 pm
Most of the earlier fairy tales are more gruesome, yes, but as far as being meant solely for adults, no, they were meant as morality stories. THey were meant to teach children lessons, and it was probably assumed that the best way to teach the children the lessons was to present the most horrible possible scenario as the consequences of the actions.
As far as the bedbugs thing, it is from the knowledge that small bugs (called bedbugs) infested beds, biting the occupant of the bed. Knowing what is known now about disease transmission, “don’t let the bedbugs bite” makes even more sense since they are able to transmit both Hepatitis B and the plague through their bite.
The traditional prayer “Now I lay me down to sleep…” is first seen in the 18th Century, in the New England Primer, a Protestant textbook for young children in the colonies.
The original form of the prayer read:
“Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray thee, Lord, my soul to keep;
If I should die before I wake,
I pray thee, Lord, my soul to take.”
This makes perfect sense, considering the belief by Puritans that only The Elect would enter Heaven. The prayer could most likely have been intended as a way for a child to guard against a sort of fall from grace in his or her sleep by asking God to watch over him/her and that if he/she should die, that God would take his/her soul to Heaven, thus making the child one of The Elect.
posted by Set on 12-26-2007 at 2:31 am
The story that has haunted me the most is Anderson’s Little Match Girl. When I was younger I had a book which said the girl was lost and tried to sell her only possession - a book of matches - to try to fund her way back home, but a blizzard sets in and she lights them instead allowing her family to find her and take her home for Christmas dinner.
Turns out the real version is a mean step-father sends her out into the cold on Xmas eve, in a blizzard, to sell matches. Everybody has gone home from the snowstorm, so she shelters in an alley and lights her remaining few matches and each one is a dream (ie, hot dinner, warm bed, loving family etc). Eventually she falls asleep and the next morning the find her frozen and dead in the snow. I grew up in Tropical Australia and the idea of freezing to death in the snow completely haunted me.
posted by Ping on 12-26-2007 at 4:21 am
Can anyone suggest a good book that has a selection of original fairy/folk tales? Reading these posts has made me want to read the original text!
posted by Julie on 12-27-2007 at 10:02 pm
there is a big distance between the Disney version of Pocahontas and the real life story of rape and abduction of a 12 year old girl. I hate how hideous history of colonisation is sanitized into a lovely movie with Grandmother Tree and lovely little woodland creatures…
posted by vagusvenus on 12-28-2007 at 1:36 am
in the original Rapunzel the reason she was trying to escape her mother was because she got knocked up by the prince. the story mentions how her cloths were getting tight around her mid and “bosom”
posted by poppy on 12-28-2007 at 12:36 pm
I’m pretty sure my copy of Andersen’s Little Mermaid ended with the mermaid Mermaid avoiding the soulless seafoam death by being pitied and inducted by the Daughters of Air, and thus be at the mercy of little children everywhere to behave, dammit, or she gets another [mumble] years of time added to her penance before she can enter Heaven. Cos really, the whole Prince thing was just kind of a detour when she wanted to be human and therefore, have a soul. Um. Yeah.
I guess that was about as happy an ending as could be afforded, but little 8-year-old me was still bitterly disappointed for years afterward. Not to mention, the repreive was rather left-field. Don’t they always pound it into your head in writing class to never to reveal a new player in the final act? ;) Ah, but I kid.
posted by ReadyFreddie on 12-28-2007 at 9:12 pm
Think broadly here, big idea territory–Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung. . .
Stories or “metaphors” are ways of explaining things we don’t understand or confirming things a society holds dear.
Kids (and adults) need, as a matter of survival, to know that danger lurks and the forms it might take, thus some of the scarier stories. Many are morality lessons, emphasizing the ideals of the society (see Campbell’s Hero with a Thousand Faces.) Then there are all the beautiful stories of how the world or the people began. These not only explained the unexplainable, but provided a special bond for the society to share and preserve.
Scary or disturbing stories were mostly “tough love.”
I wonder if our protected and coddled society will be able to see the value of stories that shock and make them think. It seems that today, violence is no longer the way to shock people into action, and I wonder what our stories will be.
posted by matureredridinghood on 1-3-2008 at 2:35 am
Kids today are coddled. They should be hearing the original so they can be better prepared for the true face of humanity.
posted by Izabaella DaJinn on 1-3-2008 at 6:25 pm
i remembered watching an Encyclopedia Britannica (or was it Reader’s Digest) cartoon series that featured the “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” as well as that of the “The Little Mermaid”. The latter had that supposed to-be tragic ending version wherein after failing to marry the prince, she then also failed to kill the prince with a magic dagger procured by her (now-bald) sister from the sea witch. But then the “deus ex machina” kicks in, and instead of turning into seafoam, the little mermaid turned into one of the Daughters of the Air, who gives comfort to afflicted children. It was, suffice to say, a bittersweet and heartwrenching story for a child of eight.
I also remember that the series also featured the story of a metal statue, a representation of a well-loved prince (who died young), embellished with jewels, perched on the kingdom’s tallest column. Years later (I guess), the statue developed sentience and began to see the sufferings that surround him. He then bade (mentally) a dove he had befriended to take out (through several trips)the jewels encrusted in his clothes, sword hilt, and then finally, the sapphires that represented his eyes, and give these to the needy families in his kingdom. The poor dove (who dearly loved the prince and his merciful compassion) later died out of exhaustion (from its day-long trips)perched on the prince’s shoulder. Whereupon, the next day, the townspeople, finding the statue too ugly without the jewels, decided to tear it down. So the poor statue got smelted. Later, all that was left was a heart-shaped lump of metal (of the prince) and the heart of the dove that loved him (who must have been bundled with the statue during the smelting).
Needless to say, these stories “formed” me and my worldview in that young age.
I was already in college when I got exposed to the “real stories” behind those fairy tales. It was a literature intro class when I grabbed hold of a copy of the authentic version of “Aesop’s Fables”, and boy were my eyes opened.
Needless to say, I now subscribe to Stephen Sondheim’s “Into the Woods” version of fairy tales, albeit still armed with that play’s admonishment (Finale: Children will Listen):
“Careful the wish you make
Wishes are children
Careful the path they take
Wishes come true, not free
Careful the spell you cast
Not just on children
Sometimes the spell may last
Past what you can see
And turn against you
Careful the tale you tell
That is the spell
Children will listen.”
posted by Maynard on 1-4-2008 at 2:35 am
Great commentary and replies…
Also:
I DO believe that the original “Little Red Riding Hood” ended with the woodsman killing the wolf. That’s all…no Grannie or Little Red jumping out of the wolf’s belly.
Also in “Peter and the Wolf”, when you hear the Duck’s song at the end it’s because the Duck was REALLY eaten by the Wolf, not just hiding behind a tree.
When I was quite young (6 or 7)I found a “Big Book of Fairy Tales” that had all these stories along with one called “The Dragon’s Tale”, all about dragons killing and eating knights, imprisoning princesses and trampling farmers. Seriously, it was great fun!
posted by shelton on 1-4-2008 at 6:28 am
Also look at the old Irish/celtic fables… Best known one is the Children of Lir. Father remarries, stepmother is jelous, turns kids into swans. spell can only be broken by them hearing a churchbell. Father dies old and alone. Children after 100’s of years finally hear chruchbell, turn into old men and women and promptly die….
Moral ,i guess, is dont let your dad remarry!!!
Dublin remberance park has a 20′ statue of children of lir.
posted by Grinin Berrett on 1-4-2008 at 9:45 am
hmmm…
a few of those fairy tales are pretty similar to some of the tales told in chaucer’s ‘canterbury tales.’
posted by rus on 1-4-2008 at 10:10 am
Izabaella DaJinn Says:
January 3rd, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Kids today are coddled. They should be hearing the original so they can be better prepared for the true face of humanity.
How scary Izabella and how sad if that is the true face of humanity.. I would hope some day there would be more happy ever afters for the children. The way the world is now though I am afraid children don’t need the “true” or “original” fairy tales. All they need to do is be exposed to television, movies and music to see the harsness of todays world. Why not let children be children can’t we all hope and pray for happy ever afters for all of us??
posted by PJ on 1-6-2008 at 6:20 pm
Well, if it is PC not to subject my son to brutal fiction I am proud to be PC. These stories are interesting…for adults. Maybe we are not as hard as we used to be but I think it is a good thing. Most children are not dying before their 3rd birthday anymore, people in general are not dying wholesale from plagues, most are not being killed off in ethnic cleansing or being impaled by guys like Vlad. I will take whatever it is that “PC” is nowadays to the horror of the Dark Ages. Hansel and Gretel, for instance, was a story based on starvation in the Dark Ages. It is appropriate for adults or teens but not young children.
posted by JPark on 1-7-2008 at 7:01 pm
The original fair tales were written to scare children for their own good. The only way to teach them about the unfairness of life was through tales. They were the best way to ensure they kept away from unsafe places rife with pillagers, rapists, thieves, vikings, vandals, and other foreigners (all European nations once saw their neighboring tribes as suspect).
Children brought up without horror stories and knowledge of real life usually grow to be maladjusted and incapable of surviving (mentally) real life. Call me cruel but I would read the original stories to children. To anyone who thinks I’m cruel…listen to the stories they make up themselves they’re usually worse!
posted by dion on 1-9-2008 at 5:27 pm
To quote the fantastic Terry Pratchett:
Most people forgot that the very oldest stories are, sooner or later, about blood. Later on they took the blood out to make the stories more acceptable to children, or at least to the people who had to read them to children rather than the children themselves (who, on the whole, are quite keen on blood provided it’s being shed by the deserving), and then wondered where the stories went.
posted by Neil C on 1-10-2008 at 1:58 pm
Try www.gutenberg.org . Not sure if all of these stories are posted but they have audio in english and text in different languages.
posted by nmax66 on 1-11-2008 at 10:26 am
There’s a story called “The Goose Girl” where a princess has to travel for a few days to get to her fiance’s castle. Along the way, her handmaiden tricks her, steals her clothes, and magically induces muteness in the princess. When they arrive, the servant fires the princess but the good king allows the now jobless “handmaid” to become a goosegirl in his house. As revenge, the servant kills the princess’ horse (whom she loved dearly) and nails his head atop the gate that the girl must pass through daily on the way to the flock.
Well, the deceit gets found out eventually, I don’t remember how, and the irate prince condemns the wicked servant to death by being pulled behind a team of draft horses wearing a barrel lined on the inside with nails.
That one made me so sad. :( And I agree with you guys about “The Little Matchstick Girl,” too pitiful.
Oh! And there’s “The Little White Cat” where the king sets tasks to see which prince will inherit the kingdom. The youngest prince stumbles on a magic realm where the people are actually cats, and the Queen of the Cats helps him with each of the tasks so that he wins. The last quest is to bring the fairest maiden in the land, so the cat asks the prince to take her to his father’s palace. When they arrive, she commands him to cut off her head (!), which he does after much dithering and tears. When he beheads the cat, she turns into a young woman and he wins the kingdom - happily ever after. ;)
posted by SaDiablo on 1-18-2008 at 12:32 am
I’ve read that Hans Christian Anderson was homosexual, which totally explains all the issues of unrequited and forbidden love in the original Little Mermaid. Imagine - he was willing to feel the pain of “walking on knives” to be with the one he loved.
posted by Brian on 1-22-2008 at 3:05 pm
The precursors to “Little Red Riding Hood” were pretty wacky:
-The girl doesn’t wear a red riding hood.
-The wolf is a werewolf (bzou).
-The werewolf kills the grandmother and tricks the girl into drinking her blood and eating her flesh, for which a random cat calls the girl a slut.
-The girl performs a striptease (more or less) before getting into bed with the wolf.
-She escapes, all on her own, by pretending she has to go to the bathroom and then running away.
We had great fun analyzing it as a coming-of-age story in the fairy tales class I took in college.
Apparently I can’t link to it in this comment, but if you do a Google search for “bread wine grandmother bzou” you should be able to find it.
posted by Elizabeth on 1-23-2008 at 12:58 am
In French class in college, we were assigned to read “La petite chaperon rouge” (”Little Red Riding Hood”). The story was just the same as we remembered it, except at the end the wolf says, “The better to EAT you with” and leaps out of bed and eats LRRH. The end. No woodsman to save the day or granny being cut from the wolf’s belly.
It was obvious that most of the class didn’t read the last part very closely, because when we discussed the end of the story in class, there was a stunned silence!
posted by J Wolter on 1-25-2008 at 5:45 am
I dunno, I grew up on HCA and Grimms Brothers stories, as well as a handful of others. None of them really frightened or worried me.
I like the original Peter Pan; he was so absentminded and adorable. He would often let the lost boys go hungry when he didn’t feel like eating, by telling them to “pretend to eat” so that they could keep playing.
When they eventually all trooped home, they brought the lost boys with them, and Wendy’s parents took to tying their feet to their bedposts at night to keep them from flying away.
Except for Wendy, because she went back every spring to clean his house. And then her daughter did the same, and her granddaughter too.
It was a very fun story. Captain Hook wasn’t such an idiot in it either. He was very polite, and obsessed with trying to find “bad form” in Peter.
posted by Laurel on 1-25-2008 at 11:51 pm
This article is great. Thanks, to whoever posted the site with the Grimm Stories. I found this really interesting, and now I’m going on a reading binge, of all the originals.
I think it’s interesting that no one can agree on whether the stories were originally for children or adults. I don’t think it matters much. I doubt I would let my children read the originals until they were at least ten. I can’t imagine a child sitting in a kindergarten class and exclaiming that no, the little mermaid DIDN’T marry the prince. Could you imagine the results? All the children would run home after school, and parents would be irate.
posted by Jim on 1-31-2008 at 2:22 pm
I didn’t go through all the comments, so i hope no one posted that.
I’m doing a paper right now on fairytales, and read your site, i hope you don’t mind me using the idea of comparing disney fairytales to the original version (i did steel that idea from you but i am writing my own texts) anyways by doing so i read the original version of hans christian andersens “the little mermaide” and i have to correct you on one thing, the little mermaide does not dissolve in sea foam, though she is supposed to.
she turns into a spirit, a daugher of the air, and so gets the chance to get a soul, by doing good deeds.
despite this i really liked your post, i think you awakened alot of people who thought that the disney version is the right one.
and i think too, that many people now realize that fairy tales were originally also for adults, not just for children.
posted by rahel on 2-8-2008 at 1:28 pm
I now have to correct myself, her body does dissolve into foam, but her soul (wich mermaids usually don’t have) turns into a spirit (meaning she is still able to exist and is not completely dissolved), sorry for that mistake
posted by rahel on 2-8-2008 at 1:34 pm
SaDiablo Says:
There’s a story called “The Goose Girl” …..
Well, the deceit gets found out eventually
——————
I believe the spell made the princess mute only to other people, but that she could talk to animals. This may be why the horse was killed. I do remember that the prince found out by listening to a stove pipe while the princess was in her hovel talking about her misfortune, maybe to a fly. Said prince may or may not have instructed her to tell the fly.
It’s been a while since I read that one.
posted by 12inchPianist on 2-12-2008 at 5:59 pm
Quit it with your half-baked theories about why bedtime stories used to be so gruesome. I can’t stress this enough: The Grimm brothers WERE NOT WRITING FOR CHILDREN. Think of them as old-school precursors to Gabriel Marquez.
posted by pete on 2-13-2008 at 8:45 am
If you are at all interested in this sort of thing then you really should get a copy of Bruno Bettelheim’s “The Uses of Enchantment: The Meaning and Importance of Fairy Tales”
It goes into amazing detail about the symbolism and power of fairy tales and their necessity to children. Even the gruesome ones.
posted by FairyLover on 2-13-2008 at 3:45 pm
what about The Story of Little Suck-a-Thumb
One day, Mamma said “Conrad dear,
I must go out now and leave you here.
But mind now, Conrad, what I say,
Don’t suck your thumb while I’m away.
The great tall tailor always comes
To little boys that suck their thumbs;
And ere they dream what he’s about,
He takes his great sharp scissors out
And cuts their thumbs clean off, and then
You know, they never grow again.”
Mamma had scarcely turned her back,
The thumb was in, Alack! Alack!
The door flew open, in he ran,
The great, long, red-legg’d scissor-man.
Oh! children, see! the tailor’s come
And caught out little Suck-a-Thumb.
Snip! Snap! Snip! the scissors go;
And Conrad cries out - Oh! Oh! Oh!
Snip! Snap! Snip! They go so fast,
That both his thumbs are off at last.
Mamma comes home: there Conrad stands,
And looks quite sad, and shows his hands;
“Ah! said Mamma, “I knew he’d come
To naughty little Suck-a-Thumb.”
posted by me on 2-20-2008 at 1:12 pm
Man that Scott Tenorman episode was sick and Splogcop this site is the original just click on the Stacy link on top
posted by alirio on 3-2-2008 at 7:25 pm
You all can say what you want about the Disney company, but Walt Disney was a truely inspirational man - note Marvan’s previous comment. If you want to read a good bio - his is the one to read.
posted by jewel4778 on 3-3-2008 at 1:06 pm
Rapunzel. After the prince climbs the hair and finds the witch holding it he falls from the tower and his eyes are pierced by brambles. He wanders the world for years unable to see and begging for food and the like. Eventually he happens upon Rapunzel (who has also been wandering since the death of the witch because the witch never told her where she came from) and her tears restore his sight. Still has the happy ending, but only after years of loss and suffering.
posted by Patty on 3-4-2008 at 9:05 am
Did anyone else watch “Fairy Tale Theatre” when they were younger? I loved it, and the the stories in it were much closer to the originals than Disney.
I think people tend to have a very naive idea about what children are like and what they enjoy and understand. I had a book of Grimms Fairy Tales when I was about seven, and I loved the stories in it. In fact, I frequently preferred them to the sanitized Disney versions. One of my all-time favorites was “The Robber Bridegroom.”
posted by sheridan on 3-4-2008 at 5:15 pm
I originally read the Grimm tales when I was about eleven or so…boy, was I in for a shock!
Although if you think about it, Prince Charming? SO not a catch. He’s a necrophiliac with a foot fetish willing to take advantage of girls while they’re asleep.
And I remember Fairy Tale Theater! My grandmother gave my sisters and I a tape with a bunch on it. It was great!
posted by Kate on 3-20-2008 at 3:23 pm
Guys in the past people really had a tough time. What did you expect? These stories are probably not as scary as reality in that time.
posted by Skeee-lo on 3-25-2008 at 1:30 pm
Hans Christian Anderson was not homosexual just unattractive and the only woman he loved was a famous Swedish opera singer named Jenny Lind. The tale about the Ugly Duckling was about her. She was not considered beautiful in her time but supposedly her ways about her made her beautiful and her voice was extraordinary. At one time Hans Christian Anderson inquired as to why Jenny Lind would not see him romantically and being a mischievous and young woman showed him a mirror. Needless to say he was heart broken.
posted by Zannen on 4-3-2008 at 6:04 pm
I have to say that my father read my sister and I stories by both the Brother’s Grimm and Hans Christian Anderson when we were younger, and neither of us ever had nightmares or got scared. He read them to us as far back as I can remember, for sure when I was three and my sister five. I did, however, and still do get scared by movies. Some of my favorite stories are by Grimm and Anderson. I like one about a girl who opens walnuts or some such and gets beautiful gowns and goes to a ball for three nights. I don’t exactly remember how it ends, but I recall liking the descriptions of the dresses.
On another note, have you seen the musical “Into the Woods”? It combines a lot of fairytales, and not the Disney variety, and has lots of dead people and blood, but it really is great, and even has a somewhat happy ending.
posted by Mac on 4-11-2008 at 4:59 am
I have two young children (4 and 2) and they love watching Disney movies. I love them too, but I have read many of the original stories that end in not-so-happy ways. The stories have morals and I’ll let my children read them when they get old enough to understand what those are.
With everyone being so PC, some people are afraid to step up and say anything lest the other take it into offense. Whether these tales were told to children or only shared among adults, shouldn’t matter. Though they contain some darker ‘areas’, telling them I feel is important. Living in this world is hard (in some places more than others) and if some parents want their children to grow up naive, then let them. I want my kids to be ready when they step off on their own, without being disillusioned into believing that everything in the world is okay. Happily Ever After happens, but it takes a lot of work..
posted by Henna on 4-27-2008 at 5:17 am
Oh please - you folks have to remember that Disney is not that old and children have been around for a LONG time… back in the “old days” (way before Disney!!) children were not pampered & coddled & treated like Pwecious widdle oog-ums…. they were just mouths to feed until they were old enough to help support the family around the farm or house, or by working a job… there were no “children’s stories” - many families didn’t even have the skills to read themselves!! When mass printed books began being available, they were cheaply printed pulp/penny books - filled with exciting, often horrific tales of bloody deeds - the bloodier, the better they sold - - there were still no childrens books!! As reading became more of a mainstream idea, and more adults learned the skills, we came into a time when child labor laws were being thought of… kids were being sent to schools instead of to work… kids learned to read… well the only things they had available outside of school were the penny books that were the hot items at the time… that was (roughly) around the time when the Grimm brothers were collecting old folktales, many of which were morality tales for the children of that time - no sweet little bunny stories, no cutesy little moptop heroes… stories were a serious business!! And those original tales reflected that. It is only in the past few decades that children have become “protected” and treated like they are now… musn’t upset little darlings - actually kids get a kick out of the more gruesome stories, it is usually the parents that are more fainthearted!! lol Disney had SO much to do with the current state of childrens literature… no wonder so many kids are obsessed with violence as they get older… they only know the Disney versions… the reality of it is fascinating… kind of like the proverbial “train wreck” that we can’t look away from - - real life is more gruesome & yes, more fascinating… but anyway…. can ya tell I studies Kiddy Lit. in college! LOL One of the very first stories written specifically for children & recognized as such was about a little girl who dies at the age of 5 or 6… she spent most of her life ill and in fervered prayer to god - - crappy childrens story by today’s standards but it was written FOR children… not the adult tales that the kids got ahold of! The message was along the lines of “be good & live a good life - it may not last long!”
Pretty funny I think, but hey - that was the thought at the time!!!!!
posted by LJ on 5-6-2008 at 3:47 pm
I heard in the real v. of little RR hood, no “hunter” comes. The last thing the ever says is ” Why, Grandma! What big theethyou have!
posted by Gabergla on 5-17-2008 at 8:16 pm
Has anyone heard of a story about “the soldier who tricked death”~?
It starts Soldier who has an encounter with Death, yet he somehow manages tricks Death into not killing him, and so Death says that he’ll give him a reward, whatever he wants, as accepting defeat, for now.
The soldier asks for a bag that can hold eveything, so Death takes out small bag, about the size of his hand and gives it to him.
The soldier, who is skeptical about his new bag that can ‘carry everything’, tests it out on a flock of geese, and to his amazement, the bag holds all of them, yet doesn’t grow at all.
He wonders around collecting various things and having various adventures.
But he gets old and weary. He is dying.
Soon, he comes across an old friend. Death.
But he has long expected this and captures Death, in his bag.
He continues to wonder the earth having various adventures. Centuries go by, and he is old and weary. He has seen everything, and so has everyone else. The world is crowded, and full of people that are just longing to die.
So the soldier decides let Death go, and put himself and everyone else to relief.
But when Death is released, as punishment/reward for tricking him again, he gives the soldier what he had wanted to begin with, eternal life.
The Soldier is still wandering the earth to this day.
I guess the moral is sort of, telling people that although living forever sounds good, it isn’t really, because after a while you will have seen and done everything and you’ll get tired of life.
I don’t remember who it was by, but I think it might have been by Hans Christian Andersen or someone similar.
I’m sure I got loads of details wrong, I’m not entirely sure if it was a soldier or not, actually, it might be more likely to be the wanderer or something, but soldier was sticking in my mind, so I just went with that.
I don’t remember how his ‘encounter’ with death went either really, I think it mioght have had something to do with a bridge (not entirely sure why)
It’s actually vauguely similar to the three deathly hallows in the Harry Potter books… (but it’s very different at the same time.)
I remember watching it when I was pretty young (like, 7 or 8) as a video directly aimed at children (it had a sort of slightly patronising (but in a thouroughly creepy way) story teller’s over-voice, and came with anopther equally creepy story…)
I swear, It damaged me. I was terrified for ages afterwards. I’d lie awake at night thinking about it for years after.
So to anyone saying kids nowadays should get the original grusome stories read to them, I disagree.
I mean, most of these don’t have morals/don’t have morals obvious enough for young children to spot, so it’s kind of pointless anyway.
(and who says children in the old times (whenever these original fairy tales were) weren’t traumatized? if people *were* marrying there daughters and raping people and whatever. (and aren’t loads of people saying that the stories weren’t meant for children but for adults, anyway?))
(Sorry this is so long. >__
posted by An Annonymus Aardvark on 5-29-2008 at 5:28 pm
I have a lot I want to say, but I’m going to try to keep it short, and try not to repeat what’s already been said…
I’m a fairy tale/mythology/folk lore/legend junkie.
I’d recommend “The Complete Fairy Tales of the Brothers Grimm” Trans by Jack Zipes (has a great introduction) and the original “1001 Arabian Nights”.
Also, I really enjoy modern fairy tale adaptations. My favorite collections are “The Bloody Chamber” by Angela Carter, “Red as Blood” by Tanith Lee (out of print), and several of the ones edited by Ellen Datlow & Terri Windling - such as “Snow White, Blood Red”. Not everyone’s taste and some stories are better than others.
I’d also recommend “The Storyteller” (DVD) by Jim Henson. It’s a collection of fairy/folk tales, darker and more accurate than Disney, but not quite as dark as the originals. Not suitable for all ages, if you ask me. “The Soldier and Death” is one of the stories in this collection - the one that the last reviewer was describing. Also here are “Sapsorrow” a version of the “King Who Wanted to Marry his Daughter”. And “The Ravens” a version of the story some one posted of the woman who had to make shirts to save her brothers that had been turned into birds.
On the subject of the nature of the stories and their intended audience and what kids should be exposed to…
As a mother, I vehemently disagree with LJ’s post. I do not believe that it is something that is Black & White as far as how kids should be brought up.
I have seen the effect that violent movies and video games can have on very young kids. Though, I don’t believe that they should be completely sheltered either. There has to be a balance! But saying that children “in history” weren’t “precious” or they shouldn’t be now is utterly untrue! The psychological effects of children being emotionally neglected can be devastating. And I feel that there is an epidemic of kids “growing up” too fast, being self-centered, narcissistic, promiscuous, and desensitized to violence, sex, etc. as a result of neglect and of the media.
If a parent is going to filter either everything or nothing than they aren’t being a good parent, IMHO. And it’s also important to stress to kids what’s real and what isn’t, though I think that they are smarter and more perceptive than a lot of people give them credit for. But I really think that there is an appropriate time for everything. You wouldn’t introduce calculus to a 1st grader, why would you read them violent or sexually explicit stories? They can’t understand either yet.
I actually love the fairy tales in both the original versions and the Disney takes on them. I don’t think the “sanitized” film and written versions are without their merits.
(Guess I didn’t really succeed in keeping this short - sorry about that.)
posted by Nerak on 6-4-2008 at 2:31 pm
In our country, children are told gruesome folktales. A lot of grown ups still believe the stories too. Its superstition. It’s very popular in the provinces. One is about a flesh eating half-woman (she’s separated from the waist down). During the day she acts like everyone else. She can even be your next door neighbor. At night she leaves her legs on the ground to fly and search for food. More often than not, she catches naughty children and eats them all up. She likes eating unborn children. She has a sharp thread-like tongue which she uses to suck the baby from it’s mother’s womb. Another story is about elf-like creatures that live in trees and take children away to make them live in their kingdom forever. Another really popular one is about a giant black horseman who smokes tobacco and stays up a tree. Occasionally we hear stories of him raping girls or falling in love with a country maiden. One folktale i found really disturbing as a child was about a fat short lady who would kill people by sitting on their chests when they are asleep. There are a lot of other creepy folktales like faceless women in white dresses, floating coffins, a funeral march comprised of the dead, a ghost that stays under a bridge and drowns people who pass. They all tell the same lesson. Don’t wander off at night, don’t talk to strangers, etc. To this very day, i don’t like staying under trees during the night.
posted by left blank on 6-7-2008 at 12:40 am
The stories also were reflections of what was going on the time they were told. Cinderella has the step sisters cutting off parts of their feet to fit into the slippers. They cut and disfigured their bodies to fit into the prince’s idea of the the perfect bride. Women are still cutting and disfiguring their bodies to fit an ideal of perfect beauty.
posted by Ezzy on 6-10-2008 at 12:08 am
When I was little, I could check out books on record albums. I got “The Juniper Tree” and it scared the crap outta me for years.
I was a big fan of Fairy Tale Theater. Great article.
posted by tammy on 6-10-2008 at 11:07 pm
The Goose girl alos talks in verse with the head of her dead horse Falata, something like this:
“Alas Falata, hanging there!”
“Alas poor mistress, how you fare!
If this your lady mother knew, her heart would surely break in two.”
She was also pestered by a fellow gooseherd named Conrad. Everey day she said a magic verse that made Conrad’s hat fly away so he’d be busy chasing after it and leave her alone.
posted by little gator on 6-13-2008 at 2:07 pm
Interesting site!
Very few of the ‘modern’ versions of fairy tales are anything like the originals! However, since death, disease, & disfigurement were a ‘normal’ part of life ‘back in the day,’ the older versions are not as “Grim” as we might believe by todays standards.
A couple of other sources of old tales: The musical “Into the Woods,” while doing a strange intertwining of four or five tales (Red Riding Hood, Cinderella, Jack & the Beanstalk, and Rapunzel, with references to several other tales), DOES use the original version of the stories (with Cinderella’s stepsisters cutting off toes & heels to try to fit the slipper, and the stepsisters’ eyes being pecked out by birds at the end). Another rather strange source is the graphic novel “The Sandman,” which incorporates a chilling version of “Red riding hood in one collection (”The Doll’s House”) which makes the wolf behave much more like a male child molester than a “wolf,” along with references like sleeping beauty waking up when the baby she bore while asleep (evidently the prince did much more than a kiss to try to wake her!) sucked the poisoned needle out of her when trying to nurse. Not sure if those are authentic, but they sure sound “uncut,” at any rate!
A version of “Cinderella” which I’ve always liked is an old story called “Cap o’ Rushes. The main character ends up kicked out of her father the king’s house when instead of comparing him to gold or jewels like her sisters, she said “I love you more than salted meat” (or something like that). However, unlike Cinderella, who needed outside help to get what she wanted, this girl disguises herself, and contrives a way to have all the meat for a big royal celebration unsalted (salt was a major way of keeping meat from spoiling in those times). When the king ate the unsalted (spoiled) meat, he found it so awful that he loudly declared “Now I understand what my daughter meant! She really did love me most of all! If only she were here, I would ask her to forgive me!” Of course, the daughter is there & reveals who she is, and lives ‘happily ever after’……all through her own cunning & cleverness. Cool story.
posted by smithquest on 6-15-2008 at 3:31 pm
I’m surprised that no one (unless i missed it in my scrolling) mentioned Martin McDonagh’s “The Pillowman.” It includes an interesting retelling - well, more of a prequel to The Pied Piper. there is also a wonderful story about a little green pig - the only one that isn’t in some form macabre. check it out, it’s a good play.
posted by ophelia's pond on 6-27-2008 at 11:35 am
Not sure if anyone ever saw the NBC made for TV movie the 10th Kingdom but the infamous iron dancing shows from Snow White are actually in that. They also have Snow White talking about the other ways her Stepmother tried to kill her which are also talked about in the original stories. The entire idea of the movie is “when happily ever after ends”
posted by Amanda on 6-27-2008 at 1:38 pm