Comments on: Weekend Word Wrap: Shakespeare, Ebonics and the verb to be revisited

By: Iris

Iris — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 21:50:49 +0000

I feel like someone needs to stand up for Shakespeare here. In those lines, he uses “be” instead of “is”, but “is” would in fact be proper grammar. The subjunctive is used when something is clearly not true, as opposed to just uncertain. For example, “If she is up, I’ll talk to her” has a completely different meaning from “If she were up, I’d talk to her” (proper subjunctive). The latter implies that the speaker knows she’s asleep (assuming that’s the meaning of “up” we’re using).

By: Andres B

Andres B — Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:14:06 +0000

I’m kind of a grammar monomaniac, but in Spanish. While I concur with Rob Atkins about what I guess Word did, I’d like to ask the bright commenters about the effect of a comma after “to.”

â€œThe person he was referring to, was an acquaintance of mineâ€

I’m not very familiar with the exact use of punctuation marks in English. In Spanish, the equivalent phrase would be correct.

By: David

David — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:36:58 +0000

Julia: thanks for the comment. Grammarians still prefer object pronouns after prepositions, so I understand the debate, which is lively and VERY healthy. Language evolves, which is largely the point of this post.

Lindsey: Standard English has no set rules. Many linguists agree that it’s impossible to regulate, especially as English is spoken all over the world, in hundreds of different dialects. Ebonics is absolutely legit and within that dialect, my examples serve as correct usage. It is completely possible that one day we’ll all be using the habitual form of the verb to be, as the language evolves. Don’t rule it out.

By: Julia

Julia — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 23:12:29 +0000

Ending a sentence with a preposition is no longer considered gramatically incorrect. If you click on my name, it should hopefully take you to a Chicago Manual of Style FAQ about that topic. Whether or not this is the narrator’s vernacular makes no difference in this case as the sentence is correct.

This is the most grammar-nerdy comment I’ve ever made anywhere.

By: Lindsey

Lindsey — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:43:34 +0000

David, wouldn’t Shakespeare’s English be considered Elizabethan English or Early Modern English, not standard English?

By: David

David — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:17:15 +0000

Beth: Exactly. My narrator reveals pantloads of information about himself by speaking in a vernacular he feels comfortable with. However, “The person to whom he was referring,” fits well in another book I’ve written, because the narrator is a strict grammarian. (n.b. it’s a satire)

Oh, and Lindsey: are you thus suggesting Shakespeare’s use of the subjunctive in Cymbaline is correct grammar today according to “standard English”?

By: Lindsey

Lindsey — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:46:25 +0000

Seriously?

“…two interesting and completely correct uses of the verb â€œto be…â€

Ebonics is not proper and correct grammar. It can be considered a colloquial language, but let’s not try to replace it with standard English.

By: Beth

Beth — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:18:15 +0000

You could correct the sentence to be grammatically correct (is that a word?) but is that the style you are writing in? The way the sentence reads, it sounds like it is being written more to flow more like how people talk – Think about it – how often do you talk grammatically correct?

and the word “ain’t” needs to be erased from everyoneâ€™s vocabulary – it is not a word and really makes people who use it sound uneducated (try listen to someone who uses it while negotiating a business contract)

By: Valerie

Valerie — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:26:10 +0000

My sentiments were exactly what Kerry and Rob Atkins- there was no object for the preposition to, which is what prompted the grammar squiggly.

Also, I find it interesting that the subjunctive is so rarely used in English, but is one of the most used forms of conjugation in the Spanish, French and Italian languages. I think the subjunctive just doesn’t sound right in germanic languages, but translates beautifully in the romantics.

By: KJ

KJ — Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:01:35 +0000

Drop the clause altogether to hear if it sounds correct:
“The person….was an acquaintance…” is grammatically correct.

I do this with my children when the say “Me and Katie want some ice cream”. Drop the “and Katie” and say the sentence again.