If you’re in Ohio and can’t live without Thin Mints, you’d better give the Ohio Girl Scout Council a call and demand they leave their existing camping sites open to the troops. Otherwise, you may very well be subject to a shortage of Samoas.
That’s because a number of troops in the state are planning to boycott Girl Scout Cookie sales this year. It’s a last-ditch effort to get the organization to leave open campsites that do not have indoor plumbing. The organization is instead planning to close these sites in favor of their new Premier Leadership Centers, all of which feature bathrooms inside.
“The council management has forced the cookie boycott by turning a deaf ear,” said Lynn Richardson of Trefoil Integrity, a group that wants to keep the camps open. But she adds that it’s up to each individual Girl Scout to decide what to do. “The girls boycotting are the ones who still have hopes that the board will change.”
[Image courtesy of The U.S. Army's Flickr stream.]
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OK, I can understand somewhat the logic of requiring modern plumbing. However, speaking as a former Boy Scout, it seems to me that generations of Scouts, both male and female, have ‘watered the bushes’ as it were without irreparable harm to the environment. Not to mention that ursine mammals defecate in arboreal regions all the time, without benefit of running water, toilet seats, or comfortable quilted paper (despite what the Charmin people would have you believe).
The world is not going to come to an end, even in Ohio, if someone has to occasionally pee or poop in an outhouse over a pit. Dig it deep enough, throw some of the dirt over the accumulated waste from time to time, and after a season or two, dig a new pit, move the outhouse, fill the old hole, and let Mother Nature work her magic.
-”BB”-
posted by Bicycle Bill on 1-16-2012 at 5:35 am
Unless there was an epidemic of girls getting poison ivy on their nether regions from squatting in the bushes, I don’t see the problem.
posted by Di on 1-16-2012 at 8:03 am
As a resident of Ohio, I agree with Bicycle Bill and Di. If they would rather pee outside, so be it.
posted by christina on 1-16-2012 at 9:26 am
Really? I don’t see a problem with using the facilities that Mother Nature has provided. As an avid camper I rarely have a choice to use an out- house (and probably wouldn’t if I could). Solid material is easily buried, and liquid material tends to dissapear on it’s own. IMO having indoor plumbing and electricity available turn camping into sleeping outside in a tent. Might as well set up “camp” in someones back yard.
posted by averagebrad on 1-16-2012 at 10:23 am
This is just the Girl Scouts of North East Ohio – about 18 counties out of 88 in Ohio. And this is about more than peeing outside. About 3 years ago, GS reorganized and consolidated their administration. This council was a merger of 5 smaller groups. Each group had its own set of camps. I guess they believe that they now have more camps then they need. The camps being closed would probably have to be upgraded to be ADA compliant, and if they have enough facilities anyway, why keep them and spend the money? The council is making a business decision. Of course, everyone wants “their” camp to stay open, just as it is. Thus, a boycott is born.
According to an article in the Columbus Dispatch, some troops just feel they don’t get enough money for the effort (at least 60 cents per box). They want to raise money other ways. Making another business decision.
Di – according to my daughter, one outhouse at the nearest GS daycamp IS covered in poison ivy, so it’s unuseable except as a living demo of a plant to avoid.
The world won’t end if some Girl Scouts pee outside. It also won’t end if some camps are sold. Life changes and goes on, whether we like the changes or not. And that may be the best lesson of all.
posted by Laurel on 1-16-2012 at 10:29 am
Averagebrad – in small groups, you plan is fine. GS camps average 100-200 girls a week, every week, for about two months. At the very least, outhouses are a must, because I don’t think Mother Nature wants to clean up that much! Yes, it is little more than “camping” in the backyard. Which is a big leap for most of these girls, who come from urban/suburban homes. For the vast majority of children in this country, they spend far too little time outside. If it takes a plumbed toilet to get them out there, so be it!
posted by Laurel on 1-16-2012 at 10:43 am
it seems to me like adding the plumbing might be very expensive, depending on how much pipe needs to be laid to reach the nearest existing line.
posted by darin on 1-16-2012 at 2:22 pm
Laurel – that depends on the size of the camp and the GS Council.
Use policies are pretty easy to put in place – easier than plumbing. Using a lottery/reservation system that restricts the number of people using a campground in a particular time period is common in all sorts of campgrounds. Actually – that would be a good Gold Award project.
posted by peony on 1-16-2012 at 2:51 pm
you dont’ need a line darin, you just need a septic tank.
posted by Wayne Stevens on 1-16-2012 at 3:05 pm
“Free to pee. Free to pee.”
posted by PartiallyDeflected on 1-16-2012 at 3:33 pm
GSNEO did merge. 5 councils became 1. The number of employees doubled! (I’ve never heard of a merger making more jobs then deleting redundancies) The camps went from 21 to 3.
To clarify: Two times the amount the staff manage the same number of members. Members have 1/7th the properties they had 4 years ago.
Last year girls brought in $8.5 million of the $11 million total operating budget, but less than $1 million was spent on the girl’s favorite program. All seven camps together cost council $990,000.
Girls were happy to participate in the COUNCIL fundraiser (girls make $0.63 of the $3.50) But if council is not supporting the membership, why should the membership support the council?
FInally, if this is a GOOD business decision, why sell during the lowest land value since the depression? Why sell the camps with the natural lakes, amenities (all less than 10 years old), and plumbing to drudge lakes, build new amenities, and install a whole new septic system?
GSNEO has told the public it’s not financial, they have no budget, and no current plans for construction. They literally said at one meeting we may never see any changes to the existing camps.
That being said, would you sell or buy cookies to support the current regime?
posted by Corey Ann on 1-16-2012 at 3:53 pm
The girl scouts in NorthEastern Ohio use the rustic camps a lot for camping with their troops. The girls like the camps, with their platform tents and nature trails. GSNEO is making an unpopular programming decision to close most of the camps and build fancy schmancy resort-like Premier Leadership Centers. GSNEO acknowledges that they are not doing this to save money and that it will not save money. GSNEO ignored a 60% vote of their delegates to “look at camp usage figures and talk to the girls about what they would prefer – enough camps and campsites so there is room for everyone to camp or three retreat centers with toilets” before putting the camps on the market. (The CEO of GSNEO does not like to camp.)
The girls don’t want to sell cookies because most of the profit from cookie sales supports the council and the council acting counter to their wishes. Most troops are selling a few token boxes – cookies for the Armed Forces, for example – so they will be eligible to participate in other GSNEO fundraisers. (If you don’t sell cookies now, you aren’t allowed to have a car wash later.)
I will certainly not buy cookies this year and I urge other families from Youngstown, Canton, Akron, Cleveland, Elyria area to buy as few cookies as they and their families can bear.
Protests and votes have not been effective, but the cookie boycott might capture the attention of the GSNEO Board of Directors. I wonder if they already have offers from developers. The camp sites are large lots of gorgeous wooded land with hills and lakes and creeks.
During a brainstorming session, a few girls noted that they liked flush toilets. No girl has ever said that she would prefer toilets over having less availability of campsites, curtailing opportunities for troops to camp and giving up land that has been Girl Scout property for use.
GSNEO is hiding financial information and camp usage information from the Girl Scout troops. The Board of Directors and CEO should resign and allow their positions to be taken over by people who appreciate the spirit of Girl Scouting, which includes tents, s’mores, and campfires.
posted by Jennifer Gassman on 1-16-2012 at 3:58 pm
I NEVER said it was a GOOD business decision. I was trying to point out that the article was not presenting the whole story. There is a LOT more going on up north that just wanting to use a tree as a bathroom.
If you really MUST buy your cookies and live in this region, find another council to buy from, or buy from a younger troop of Daisy or Brownie scouts, who would have a very difficult time raising money other ways.
posted by Laurel on 1-16-2012 at 5:21 pm
I remember four decades ago my boyscout manual had instructions for a latrine for a campsite, and for how to use the heel of your shoe to dig a small hole for one-time personal use. If we have gotten to the point that we can’t “answer the call of nature” out in nature, there is something wrong.
posted by Gordon Daily on 1-16-2012 at 5:36 pm
I used to be a Girl Scout. I was never really a fan of the outhouse (or BIFFY- bathroom in forest for you), but I don’t feel like my tendency to go to camps with indoor plumbing detracted from my scouting experience. Not peeing outdoors doesn’t take away from the ideals that Girl Scouts tries to instill in its girls.
posted by Stacey on 1-16-2012 at 6:17 pm
Wait…when they say “without indoor plumbing,” does that mean NO bathrooms whatsoever? Or just outhouses?
posted by Bob on 1-16-2012 at 8:30 pm
Wow, I’ve heard more in the past two weeks about Girl Scout policies and the cookie economy than I have in the past decade, I think. Between this and the hoopla over the Colorado troop accepting a transgender girl.
Things are rattling around in the Girl Scout organization?
posted by ElizabethW on 1-16-2012 at 8:52 pm
Please listen! THE PEEING OUTSIDE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE! Never has! Some joke website made it up and now everyone is repeating it. Every one of these camps (the 11 ones that were closed) and the 3 they are keeping have both indoor & outdoor plumbing. There have been some pretty serious lies put out there by GSNEO and groups like Friends of Hilaka & Trefoil Integrity have tried very hard to get to the truth. This boycott is about asking the public to help our girls. The head of GSNEO has given statements that she is against camping & wants to replace green spaces with computer labs & leadership centers that can be rented out. Even though the little girls just want to camp with their troop! Please research before you post these articles!
posted by Mrs on 1-16-2012 at 9:28 pm
To be honest, even if there was an outhouse, I would probably still poop outside. I’d rather take my chances with poison ivy than with whatever is in those outhouses.
posted by ConstantlyPooping on 1-19-2012 at 9:03 am