Comments on: Weekend Word Wrap: Picking a candidate based on grammar?

By: morphail

morphail — Wed, 28 May 2008 19:05:30 +0000

This article is based on the mistaken belief that “if he was a white man” is not a counterfactual statement. But it clearly is.

There is no loss of distinction using “if he was” instead of “if he were”

present possible condition: I don’t know if he is a white man.
past possible condition: I didn’t know if he was a white man.
present countefactual condition: If he was/were a white man, he would not be in this position.
past counterfactual condition: If he had been a white man, he would not have been in this position.

Context is important. The full quote is “If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position.” This is clearly present counterfactual. I don’t see how it can be interpreted as anything else.

Using “was” still captures the counterfactual mood of the subjunctive, and it makes the verb “be” fall in line with all other verbs, where the present counterfactual form is identical to the simple past, for instance:

If I lived in Paris, I would visit the Eiffel tower.

“be” is the only verb with a special form in the first and third person present counterfactual. If we donâ€™t need this distinction with other verbs, why is it so essential with “be”?

Counterfactual “if he was” and “if he were” have been used interchangeably in standard written English for the past 400 years.

By: Pointy-Hatted Geek

Pointy-Hatted Geek — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:58:58 +0000

Dang, that’s a freaky picture of Hilary Clinton. I’m beginning to see why some of my friends think she’s the Anti-Christ.

By: Barbara

Barbara — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:12:51 +0000

As a former ESL and Spanish teacher, I concur with your feelings about the subjunctive, but not the conclusion you draw. I would excuse Obama errors in using the verbs “to lie” and “to lay”, misuse of the objective case, and even misspelling “definitely” as “definately” before I would vote for Hillary.

By: polaroidgirl

polaroidgirl — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:06:58 +0000

The problem is that grammar is not taught in school. I never heard the term subjunctive until I was studying Spanish. I realized at the time that learning how to use it was a struggle because we were never taught it in English. Rock on Los Angeles Unified School District!

By: cyberkrinn

cyberkrinn — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:20:09 +0000

Keep it going…

What about the misuse of the words “I” and “me?” As in, “Deb and me are going to the store” and other such ditties. Don’t even get me started on “her and I are going to the store” or “is that her?”

I used to tell my ESL students that since they insisted on watching TV to learn English, then they should at least watch the news; however, even those programs are not safe anymore. Since when is “went missing” grammatically correct? Since when is it grammatically acceptable to either say or write “people that” instead of “people who.”

Maybe during the writers’ strike, instead of walking the picket line, the writers should have been back in English class…

By: Alice

Alice — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 19:05:43 +0000

Oh my goodness, I’ve found my true home. I just landed here at Weekend Word Wrap, and found someone as annoyed as I am by the sad, sad folks who can’t seem to wrap their heads around (or even just remember to play along with) the subjunctive. I literally got a warm feeling inside after reading your post, David. I know it sounds crazy, but thank you. And yes, I was an English major, and am the daughter of an English teacher, so it’s ingrained.

Be well, everyone.

By: Stacey

Stacey — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:06:40 +0000

The subjunctive tense is my retired teacher mother’s biggest pet peeve. I don’t think I am capable of not using it after all of her corrections. What dumbfounds me is my otherwise very intelligent husband being completely unable to even understand what the subjuntive tense is. I finally had to tell him, “Honey, if I were you, I’d avoid all phrases with the word if in them around my mom.”

By: nutmeag

nutmeag — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:14:35 +0000

I wonder if were is one of those words that will soon fall by the wayside as our language continues to change. So few people know how to correctly use it that it may just disappear completely.