It’s been pretty hard to miss what’s been going on at the Yearning for Zion Ranch near Eldorado, Texas. In case you haven’t heard, here’s a quick recap: the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which believes in polygamy, (which is different than the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) has a large following near Eldorado where this YFZ Ranch is located.In late March, the Texas Child Protective Services hotline received a call from a girl claiming to live at the ranch who said she was being abused. This led to a huge raid by Texas law enforcement and child welfare officials, who ended up removing 452 children (some pregnant and/or already mothers) from the ranch.
So, that’s the rundown. I think there has been plenty of media coverage, so I don’t need to go into great detail. Just Google “Yearning for Zion” for more information. Instead of rehashing what has already been splashed all over the Internet, let’s look at some notable polygamists.
Joseph Smith, Jr.
Let’s start with the founder of the Mormons, Joseph Smith, Jr. While it was well-known that his “main” wife was Emma, he may have had up to 33 wives in addition to her. The ages ranged from 14 years old to 60 years old. It would seem that Emma sometimes supported the polygamist lifestyle and was sometimes vehemently opposed to it. Although she actually attended one of the weddings of her husband and another woman, she also went on record saying that her husband had only one wife and that polygamy was never advocated in their household. Some theorize that Emma really didn’t know much about his other marriages – Joseph knew she disapproved and he secretly married others anyway, including some of her friends. It’s unknown how many children Joseph Smith had – DNA tests are still being done on people who claim to be his descendants.
Brigham Young
By contrast, Joseph Smith’s successor, Brigham Young, had marriages that were extremely well documented. In order, he was married to Miriam, Mary Ann, Lucy, Augusta, Harriet, Clarissa, Emily (who was also married to Joseph Smith), Clarissa, Louisa, Eliza, Elizabeth, Clarissa, Rebecca, Diana, Susanne, Olive (also married to Joseph Smith), Mary Ann, Margaret, Mary, Emmeline, Mary Elizabeth, Margaret, Olive (also married to Joseph Smith), Emily, Martha, Ellen, Jemima, Abigail (who was the mother of Brigham Young’s first wife, Miriam), Phebe, Cynthia, Mary Eliza, Rhoda (also married to Joseph Smith), Zina (also married to Joseph Smith), Amy, Mary Ellen, Julia, Abigail, Mary Ann, Naamah, Nancy, Jane, Lucy, Mary Jane, Sarah, Eliza, Mary, Eliza, Catherine, Harriet, Amelia, Mary, Ann Eliza, Elizabeth, Lydia and Hannah.
That’s three Clarissas, three Elizas, three Mary Anns, three Marys, two Olives, two Abigails, two Elizabeths, two Harriets, two Lucys, two Margarets, five who were also married to Joseph Smith and one mother-daughter duo.
With so many wives, it’s almost surprising that he only had 57 children. To accommodate his gigantic family, Brigham Young had the Lion House and the Beehive House built. One of Young’s contemporaries wrote, “It was amusing to walk by Brigham Young’s big house, a long rambling building with innumerable doors. Each wife has an establishment of her own, consisting of parlor, bedroom, and a front door, the key of which she keeps in her pocket”.
The Jeffs
First, we have Rulon Jeffs (that’s him on the left with two of his wives). He was the eighth prophet of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, serving from 1986 to 2002. As mentioned before, the FLDS is a sect of the Mormon Church – when the Salt Lake City-based Mormon Church banned polygamy in the 1890s so Utah could become a state, the FLDS was created because, among other reasons, they still believed in polygamy. Jeffs had 19-20 wives, 27 daughters and 33 sons. That brings us to Warren Jeffs (on the right), the son who declared himself the ninth prophet of the Fundamentalist Church after his father’s death. He married most of his father’s widows, making him the stepfather of some of his brothers. He also married women who were close relatives, but claimed that it was necessary because as a descendant of both Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ, he needed to preserve the family bloodlines. He believes that a man must have at least three wives to make it to heaven, but the more wives, the better. He is estimated to have somewhere between 70 and 80 wives, including Naomi, who married his 90-year-old father when she was only 17.
Warren was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List in 2006 for arranging marriages between adult men and underage girls. He was arrested a couple of months later and charged with that, plus sexual conduct with minors and incest. He was found guilty of two counts of rape as an accomplice and sentenced to 10 years to life in prison, which he is now serving.
Tom Green
Now, the FLDS members know their beliefs are taboo when compared with that of most people’s, so they tend to keep a low profile. But not Mormon Fundamentalist Tom Green (not THAT Tom Green). He appeared on Dateline NBC, Queen Latifah, The Jerry Springer Show and The Sally Jesse Raphael Show to promote a polygamist lifestyle. He pretty much dared police to come after him, saying that marrying as many women as he wished was his constitutional right. They accepted the dare and came after him when they discovered that his first wife, Linda Kunz, was born in 1973 and had her first child in 1986 – which means she was only 13 when she had sex with Green. He was convicted in 2002 for child rape and was released from prison last year. He’s still married to Linda. Oh, he had five wives altogether – Linda, Carrie and Hannah, who were sisters; and Shirley and Leanne, also sisters. He has 25 children with the five wives.
Ervil LeBaron
When the Mormons abandoned the idea of polygamy, several families, including Ervil’s, moved to Mexico so they wouldn’t be under United States jurisdiction. When Ervil’s dad died, his eldest son, Joel, became the leader of the community, which he eventually called the Church of the Firstborn in the Fullness of Times. In 1972, Ervil and Joel were warring over control of the Church. Ervil split off into a group of his own called the Church of the Lamb of God. He had Joel killed. Younger brother Verlan then assumed leadership of Joel’s group, so Ervil tried to have him killed too. He was unsuccessful that time, though.
However, he was successful in having his followers (often his wives) kill rival polygamous leaders and their wives. He has also been linked to the death of his own daughter, Rebecca, who criticized the group. Ervil was arrested in 1979 and taken to the U.S., where he was convicted of having ordered the death of one of his rivals. He was sentenced to life in prison at the Utah State Penitentiary, but died of natural causes after serving less than two years. For the short time he was in prison, though, he kept instructing his wives, children and followers to continue to murder. It’s estimated that at least 25 people were killed from LeBaron’s orders in prison. His daughter, Jacqueline, is wanted by the FBI.
Tran Viet Chu
Not all polygamists are Mormons or Mormon offshoots, though. Tran Viet Chu of Vietnam says he has no problem keeping up with his 14 wives and 80-plus children.
“Poor me, every time I see a voluptuously shaped woman I find no way to resist my sensitive feeling. I seem to have been born with this flirtatious tendency,” he told the
Cong An Nhan Dan (People’s Public Security) newspaper. He lives with some of his family, with each wife supporting her own children. Chu provides for himself. He says he’s lost count of all of his wives and kids, but says he has “at least” 14 wives. And yes, polygamy is illegal in Vietnam, and so is having more than two children per family.
Saleh al-Sayeri
This 64-year-old businessman has had 58 wives, but doesn’t remember the names of most of them. He has 10 sons and somewhere between 22 and 28 daughters – he’s not exactly sure. He does know, though, that all of his marriages and settlements have cost him more than $1.6 million.
Islamic law allows men to have up to four wives at a time, but he says he has kept the same three for the past 20 years or more – it’s the fourth wife he rotates out. “It’s the one for renewal,” he said. “I like to change my fourth wife every year.”
One of his sons, Fahd al-Sayeri, said he was out with friends when they heard celebratory gunshots coming from a tent, signaling a wedding. When he conversationally asked who got married, Fahd was informed that it was his own father. Again.
Comments (46)
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As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I usually get fired up when I read comments and stories about the early history of the church and it’s relationship with polygamy – generally because they are untrue. Your post, however, did not invoke that emotion. So I’d like to say ‘thank you’ for not printing anything that was inflammatory or incorrect. The reasons for polygamy among the early members of the church were valid and only a small percentage of members had multiple (condoned) wives. It is also documented that Joseph Smith struggled greatly and in fact questioned the idea because it tormented him to think of how it would be to Emma.
posted by Anonymous on 5-1-2008 at 11:17 am
Gotta love those LeBarons. Nothing is more Christian than killing, right? (rolling eyes here)
posted by beth on 5-1-2008 at 11:33 am
to anonymous:
who cares if he was “tortured” by the idea? he still did it. for the last 150 years, it was never about religion. it was about sexual deviance, plain and simple.
oh, and anyone that states that polygamy and child abuse were ever “valid” regardless of the period or religious inclination needs to visit a women’s shelter of a prison post haste.
p.s. i’m not staying anonymous because i’m not a coward.
posted by ashley on 5-1-2008 at 11:43 am
“or a prison.” my bad.
posted by ashley on 5-1-2008 at 11:44 am
I don’t have a problem with polygamy on paper. I say if someone wants to marry more than one ADULT, go for it. It’s the obvious abuse that has arisen out of it. So called prophets scaring children into marriage with threats that they won’t get into heaven. Sickening. Does anybody know why women don’t have multiple husbands in this setup, or at least know the excuses that the men make for not allowing it?
posted by Tricia on 5-1-2008 at 12:07 pm
@ Tricia,
Apparently God told Joseph Smith men should have many wives and not that women should have many husbands. And well, you know, you just can’t argue with God.
It should be noted there are a (very)few cultures which practice ployandry, which is when women take multiple husbands.
posted by Florida on 5-1-2008 at 12:48 pm
Well completely leaving human culture and societal mores out of it, biologically it makes much more sense for a man to have multiple partners than for a woman to. Women have to invest at least nine months plus however many years after of nursing and care in having a child, where men can potentially father hundreds of children a year, given enough partners. In terms of spreading your genes, women benefit from intense investment in a small number off offspring, whereas men benefit most from mating as often as possible.
Think of it like a “polar bears versus salmon” approach to perpetuating the species.
Polyandry is only worth it if the female can convince the males to support her without killing each other off.
posted by gibson8or on 5-1-2008 at 1:03 pm
see, what i don’t get about the whole mormon thing is sure, i’m all for if you believe in it and stuff, whatever, but the basis for STARTING the religion was total bullcrap.
it was basically something joseph smith and brigham young started up so they could be man hoes as far as i can tell.
if i understand the basic premise, joseph smith claimed to have dug up some plates with writing on them which he “translated” even though it has later been found out to be gibberish and he was lying.
so whatever. unfortunately i kind of lump mormons into the same group as scientologists.
but other than the annoying at-the-door visits mormons are nice enough.
posted by Sue on 5-1-2008 at 1:09 pm
annonymous, I happen to ALSO be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I agree with your statement about this excellent post being well phrased and non-inflammatory. It is true that polygamy was practiced by several of the founding members of my faith. It is also true that the great majority did not practice it. Let it also be said that some of Joseph’s wives and Brigham’s wives CHOSE to be married to them POST MORTEM. I find it interesting to note that you have more than one wife of Brigham’s also attributed to Joseph. I was unaware of this. Because there truly has been so much attention given to the “mormons” because of both the presidential race (I never voted for Mr.Mitt by the way- Obama all the way), I must state that the Fundamentalist Church if Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is in error for continuing to practice polygamy after it was expressly forbidden by law (which also happened as a congressional way to keep “the mormons” out of the legal US of A- before then, it was not illegal) and I agree with the state officials that child abuse is never okay. period. My heart is broken for those young girls who were abused and have suffered much through the lechery of civli-disobedient men. Now is the time to help these poor children, young teens and (from what I understand) young mothers to shed their horror and learn to live. Now is not the time for finger-pointing and name calling at a group of people who have had nothing to do with polygamy for almost 200 years. Do people point at you and say “your ancestors were slave holders, so you must be a slave holder at heart too!”? I call for unity as humanity to show these poor people that there is safety without the confines of their “elders” (or “prison” to use another reader’s word) regardless of religion. And I am not a coward.
posted by ashley on 5-1-2008 at 1:12 pm
Ashley,
I thought reading Mental Floss was supposed to make you smarter (or atleast remind you that you were smart)
posted by AnyAnnonyMouse on 5-1-2008 at 1:13 pm
Oh the banter of mormons. How it brings a smile to my face. Perhaps you two ladies should marry me?
Nevermind the fact that the book of mormon mentions horses and pigs- those weren’t brought over until after Columbus. Or that it doesn’t mention turkeys or llamas. Both native to this area. And trying to read it…my goodness what a garbled mess of utterances.
I have two (or 10) marriage licenses ready. Anyone up for some Big Love?
posted by tommy on 5-1-2008 at 1:58 pm
Mental Floss, usually I love your article, but this one has a few false pieces of information that need to be cleared up.
The FLDS Church or any modern day polygamist religions, are NOT affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, or Mormons. Yes there was a time where polygamy was accepted by the church and was practiced, but once it was stopped, any members still practicing, or branching off were excommunicated from the church. They were no longer memebers. They have NO affiliation with Mormons.
posted by Adam on 5-1-2008 at 3:22 pm
i’m reminded of the BRILLIANTLY written south park episode regarding joseph smith and the mormon church.
it was ALMOST better than the scientology episode. almost.
posted by ashley on 5-1-2008 at 3:43 pm
gibson8or,
Please reconsider the “biological” arguement that the world would somehow benefit from a larger population. We can’t figure out how to take care of every person who is already a part this beautiful, terrible planet.
posted by elizabutt on 5-1-2008 at 4:07 pm
i’m surprised there is no mention of john humphrey noyes. he created the oneida community in upstate new york and was quite successful for decades. the oneida mansion house is an interesting tourist attraction, although now it’s a retirement home. there’s dozens of hidden tunnels throughout the complex.
posted by elih on 5-1-2008 at 6:16 pm
@elizabutt
I never said it was better for the planet. I just said it was better for spreading your genes.
Also, why has this article spawned a bunch of religion-bashing? There is no religion that would stand up to microscopic scrutiny. Islam, Judaism, Christianity, and most other religions have both scientific impossibilities and historical embarrassments and “evils.” Why has this turned into a theological hate-fest?
Where’s the Mental Floss love, people?
posted by gibson8or on 5-1-2008 at 7:04 pm
Just by way of convention, many of you are confusing the terms polygamy, polygyny and polyandry. Time for a dictionary and maybe a step back to have understanding and tolerance for those different that you. Good to see that close mindedness is still alive and well.
posted by Another Anonymous on 5-1-2008 at 7:20 pm
gibson8or,
Thank you for your response to my post. I agree I went all defensive for something you didn’t even say – sorry. I will join your effort to spread the flossy love.
posted by elizabutt on 5-1-2008 at 11:38 pm
This is quite a post list. My qualifications for comment are that I have been a member of the (Mormon) Church for all of my life and have been active for all but the last 2 years. I have several friends that come from the FLDS religion. First. The assertion that the FLDS have nothing to do with the LDS faith is nonsense. They both sprung from the same origin and both believe in 95% of the same scripture. The FLDS took a turn at Wilford Woodruff the 4th Prophet of the LDS church when he published a Manifesto that denounced the LDS ties to polygamy on earth. This is an important delineation because the LDS church to this day still believes in polygamy in the afterlife, but will not practice it as long as it is illegal in the current life. I do not know what their stand would be if polygamy were legitimized, I suspect that they would maintain a monogamous philosophy.
Now to the point about deriding anyones religious practices. This country is built on religious freedom. A close friend put it so “In this country, we are free to believe any mythology we wish” And that is the truth. To mock or scorn the FLDS for practicing their beliefs as taken from the early LDS church is not in line with the ideals of this country. It is apparent that they marry very young girls. I find this abhorent, and yet, that is how all of the men and women in this closed society are raised. certainly marriage to a 13 year old was not as uncommon 200 years ago as we might think. How can we not allow parents of children to raise them the best way they know how? And more importantly, how do we go about legislating it. Yes yes, I know, what if their religion included human sacrifice. yes, we do draw some universal lines. But I still maintain that if we can tell a religion that they can or can not allow to marry and give in marriage according to the dictates of their conscience, we are simply moving the line to an inevitable conclusion. State regulation of religion. This would eventually include a law that would prohibit any child from attending church until they are adults so they can make an informed decision about religion without being brainwashed or indoctrinated. At that point we will have nearly no religion left. While I myself do not believe in any particular religion, I DO however believe that religion is basically good if it teaches people to be better. Sorry for the windy response ;)
posted by Mark on 5-2-2008 at 12:16 am
Fine, here you go:
Polygamy – Having more than 1 spouse at a time
Polyandry – Having more than 1 husband at a time
Polygyny – Having more than 1 wife at a time
Geez.
posted by jujueyeballs on 5-2-2008 at 3:11 am
Dear Florida and Tricia,
A Woman would be smart enough to know that , if she heard God tell her to have more then one husband, He was playing a practical joke on her!! I’m married, love him dearly, wouldn’t leave him for all the money in the world, but that being said…WHY WOULD ANY WOMAN IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WANT MORE THEN ONE HUSBAND!!!!
posted by Tonya on 5-2-2008 at 7:31 am
Tonya:
Totally agree with you. One husband is awesome and enough.
posted by Tricia on 5-2-2008 at 9:32 am
No mention of Abraham, Jacob, Salomon, David and the rest of the guys in the Bible?
These guys are the OG of polygamists.
posted by n2y2 on 5-6-2008 at 11:38 am
“It is apparent that they marry very young girls. I find this abhorent, and yet, that is how all of the men and women in this closed society are raised. certainly marriage to a 13 year old was not as uncommon 200 years ago as we might think. How can we not allow parents of children to raise them the best way they know how?”
Uh, if _everyone_ in that society was truly okay with it, why have many of the women and girls run away or tried to run away? Why are so many suffering from mental, emotional, and physical abuse?
posted by Jessica on 5-8-2008 at 10:15 am
Ashley (the bigot, not the Mormon),
You’re ripping on Mormons? And you’re a Catholic?
Honestly, I’m not going to rip on Catholicism. I AM Mormon, so I am a little sensitive to religious bigotry. But a Catholic ripping a Mormon for a peculiar Church history strikes me as, I don’t know, ironic.
The bottom line is that ALL religions require faith. Without it, smart people wouldn’t participate. Sorry, but them’s the facts.
posted by Paul on 5-10-2008 at 1:09 am
Paul,
I don’t understand where you see Ashley attacking the Mormon faith? She expressed a viewpoint, her own opinion about polygamy within Mormon church history. I also dont understand you bringing up the fact that she is Catholic, what does it matter?
posted by Jessica on 5-18-2008 at 12:21 pm
Jessica,
I’m not sure if you’ll even see this, but what the heck.
She says, “it was never about religion. it was about sexual deviance.”
Well, I don’t see how THAT could be attacking someone’s faith. I would love to hear her justification for such slander.
Then, she references the South Park episode about Mormons – if you haven’t seen it, I’ll just say it’s not exactly a highly unbiased, fair-minded Mormon critique. She calls it “BRILLIANTLY written (sic).”
If you don’t see how any of that is inflammatory, then I guess I don’t know what to say to you.
As for the Catholic thing – I simply pointed out that she was Catholic. The difference between Catholics and Mormons, IMO, is about a thousand more years for the world to become comfortable with some of Catholicism’s more controversial tenets. Catholics, in other words, are considered “mainstream” because they’re religion is older.
posted by Paul on 5-26-2008 at 1:00 am
Whether LDS or FLDS, this is the result of listening to men who claim to be listening to God and yet, spouting contradictions to the Biblical concept of marriage. The LDS have a history of changing history to suit the occasion. The mark of any cult is that they have a book that they equate to the Bible and when backed into a corner, will desert the Bible and rely on the book, usually written by a man who claims to have had a vision from God. Think of the masses who lived 1800 years before Joseph Smith cound the golden spectacles to read the mess called the Mormon bible. God help those caught up in this charade.
posted by Ron McKeever on 7-1-2008 at 8:28 pm
It’s the FLDS who are the true practitioners of true Mormonism as it was taught and practiced by Joseph Smith, “well now it’s illegal they’ll say,” well whatever happened to, “we would rather obey God than man,” to change the true tenets of your beliefs to suit man’s laws shows a manmade religion dictated and regulated by man not God, and those who do practice polygamy at least are sincere in their following the true Mormon teaching of Joseph Smith, but nevertheless are still sincerely wrong, as Jesus himself stated in direct opposition to Joseph Smith, “For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife, (not wives), and the two (not three, four, five, etc.) shall become one flesh, in the garden of Eden when he created man it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve, and Debbie, and Shirley and…..” Mormonism was a good idea to justify the lust of wanting to shtoop different women, but how do you convince your wife, “divine revelation, yeah that’s the ticket!” so it’s not the God of the Bible who appeared to Joseph Smith, nor is it the God of the Bible that the Mormons worship today. Where “Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer” I don’t think so, or “as man is, God was, and as God is man will become,” I don’t think so, unless you’re listening to the serpent, the devil in the garden who said, “the day you eat of this fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, your eyes will be opened and you will be as Godâ€, and it’s not the Jesus of the Bible who said, “in heaven there is neither marriage nor given in marriage, for they shall be as the angels of God.” So whoever gave this revelation to Joseph Smith, one thing is for sure, it was not of God, “Test the spirits little children for many false prophets have gone out of the world,” “and if anyone come and preach to you any other gospel than the one we have preached to you, even if it’s an angel from heaven, let him be accursed!”
posted by MarioAlberto on 8-24-2008 at 9:23 pm
There are remote minority enclaves in China and Tibet where polyandry is practiced. Not because the women want it, but because there is a shortage of women. They tend to die off due to malnutrition and childbirth. It’s not an easy life.
posted by Miss Cellania on 9-25-2008 at 9:33 am
Ploygamy is disgusting. Plain and simple. No matter what dressing covers it. And it’s even more disgusting that male fornication is covered up by religion.
As to forcing minors into marriage-there’s a reason why even hardcore criminals don’t like rapists, especially child rapists. Apparently, despite being antisocial element, they still have an understanding of social norms, as opposed to “Prophets”
posted by Duh on 12-1-2008 at 10:46 pm
Jacqueline Lebaron’s was captured this year
posted by Diane on 8-5-2010 at 5:27 am
Recently Californias Proposition 8 (Defining marriage as between a man and a woman) was overturned by a federal judge. It will be interesting to see if this will lead to a push among polygamists to have their lifestyle legalized.
posted by sentry on 8-5-2010 at 5:40 am
In my earlier years, I would’ve said I would be perfectly content with just 7 husbands. A new one every night of the week!.. Now, I’d settle for two….
posted by old hippy chick on 8-5-2010 at 8:43 am
On average in most populations, there is 100 males born for 105 females. And as time go on, the disparity between the number of male and female get even higher because men are far more risk prone than females. Also, men have a tendency of being more demanding sexually then women.
So what does that tell ya? Natural tendency of 1 man with many women. Only religion crap have instituted 1 man for 1 woman. Nature doesn’t see it that way.
Also, you don’t have to go back 200 years to see weddings of 13 year old womens. My mother was born in 1933 and she saw that in her teens, which means around 1945 something. Thats a bit more than 60 years ago, in North America. 13 year-old girl nowaday are immature morons who play with their cellphone all day, but in my mother time she was riding a horse carriage to reap corn at 8 years-old. So they matured much faster at that time with far more life responsibilities.
Also you can tell yourself all day long that 13 year old girls are children, but then why did nature make them FERTILE and CAPABLE of getting pregnant at that age if they are supposed to be immature children? Laws of men are not real compared to laws of nature. I don’t condone marriage to 13 years old girls, but saying they are untouchable because they are children is pretty stupid too. If they want to have sex, they should be able to do it with whoever they want as long as they did want it. Those protective laws are there because of a bunch of dumb parents who know they didn’t raise their girl correctly and then cry their eyes out when they go sleep with boys.
posted by stevodore on 8-5-2010 at 1:47 pm
It has been considered a basic civil right for two adults of the same sex to marry. So if multiple adult wives are part of someones belief system, then why should the government not allow it? Isn’t this legislating morality? By the way, I believe that a marriage is only between one man and one woman.
posted by Jesse on 8-5-2010 at 3:46 pm
Monogamy is a joke. It’s against our carnal desires. But – when you commit to someone, you commit to THEM. Don’t friggin’ get married if you don’t want to be with only them.
P.S. – why no polygamous women?
posted by Anna on 8-5-2010 at 4:48 pm
@Mark I like how you call it mythology.
posted by Anna on 8-5-2010 at 4:52 pm
@ Stevodore
The natural ratio of male:female is purportedly somewhere in the neighbourhood of 102:100. So, nature did intend for 1 man and 1 woman. Or 1.02 man per 1 woman. In some regions of India and China the ratio is as high as 125:100 (but only because of prevalent practices such as female infanticide).
It is only in industrialized countries where the overuse and abuse of chemicals have taken their toll on the sensitive Y chromosome. Thus, it seems that polygamy is not the way of nature, more so the result of our desecration of the planet.
posted by HN on 8-5-2010 at 5:28 pm
*It is only in industrialized countries where the overuse and abuse of chemicals have taken their toll on the sensitive Y chromosome THAT THE NATURAL BALANCE HAS BEEN UPSET. Thus, it seems that polyGYNY is not the way of nature, more so the result of our desecration of the planet.*
Whoops. I should have mental_flossed first.
posted by HN on 8-5-2010 at 6:39 pm
Honestly, and it’s not like I’m saying everyone should marry many many people, but the big legal issue with any form of polygamy is a tax one. While the government does stick its nose in moral issues more than it probably should, one of the biggest sticking points in defining marriage as one-on-one is the tax breaks and health insurance coverage granted to married partners. When you open up a marriage to multiple people, the argument over who gets the tax breaks and insurance gets started, and no one wants to deal with it.
posted by Mia on 8-5-2010 at 9:38 pm
@ Stevodore
13 year old girls do not have the wisdom or experience to really understand what’s best for them. They may have the working reproductive organs, but that doesn’t mean they are ready to be mothers or wives. Things have evolved the way they have for a reason. My grandmother got married at 13, but she didn’t want that for me because she saw it as a mistake. When you’re 13, you don’t see the whole picture. When you think you love a boy/man, you only see the good. It isn’t until you’re 25 with ten kids that you finally realize he’s an abusive alcoholic womanizer. If you’d only waited, you’d have seen it before you jumped in bed with him.
If we went by nature’s law on everything, we would still be living in caves with no electricity. Part of being human is learning to control our base instincts, or at least have a healthy way of giving in to them (with other consenting ADULTS).
posted by Jessi on 8-7-2010 at 2:25 pm
What I find funny is that in society we are trying to keep other people from having sex, so that we can have more for ourselves. It’s somewhat of a survival mechanism.
If you say that Mormons are wrong, you would be a hypocrite if you didn’t denounce every other faith.
Personally, and this may seem twisted but I think most men fantasize about younger women at some point in their lives. It sounds wrong, but it’s just this taboo thing that most people don’t want to admit, and for obvious reasons.
The implications behind a polygamist are the supposed moral laws. I think men envy a man with many wives without realizing it, so they bash them because of it.
For consenting adults, I believe that they should be allowed to marry as many as they like. I don’t see how it directly effects someone else.
For adults marrying minors, I find this completely ridiculous and hilarious when people try to defend it.
First off, 200 years years ago, the world was a completely different place, and society was a completely different animal. Wealth wasn’t as distributed as it is now. You were either born into a wealthy family, and you would remain wealthy, or you would be born into a poor family and remain poor.
The reasons for polygamy were obviously for procreation and marrying a younger women would result in more children over time. It was simple mathematics, and at the time it was just an accepted form of courtship.
@Jessi I couldn’t say it better myself. Relationships should be consensual but at the same time, a child shouldn’t have the right to consent to marriage. Why? Because life lessons are learned through trial and error. Marrying someone that young is stealing away their childhood and all of the beautiful things they could experience as a single growing individual.
What business does a child have raising another child, with other children.
With that being said, how can you really believe something written 2000 years ago by bronze age tribesman. The Bible believed in Slavery but you don’t see slaves in the US. Hmm, wonder why, because human beings are smarter than their supposed “Gods”.
One life to live, and one life to enjoy. Don’t be a selfish bastard and steal that from someone else.
posted by Joshua on 8-7-2010 at 10:57 pm
I believe polygamy and any form multiple wives husbands ect is all fine and up to the participant as long as they are over 18 and willing I believe that is up to ppl who they sleep with and how they live there lives and everyone else should mind there own damn business you should live your life not everyone elses you get one life that u control you can’t control the world. Just my opinion but I don’t like that the country controls peoples personal lifestyles there’s no freedom in that.
posted by Mia on 9-28-2010 at 6:57 am
In my opinion anyone who practices poligamy should have their heads examine.the man wants control over the women and the women lack self esteem and confidence and this is just basic.
posted by michele on 11-4-2010 at 8:25 pm
Wow. The mental hoops that Mormons must go through to make sense out of nonsense. It is so obvious that Joseph Smith wanted to be with more than one woman. So, he made it “God’s word”. It is absolutely sad how deeply, deeply in denial people can be when the obviousness of someone telling lies and tall tales (about GOLDEN PLATES TRANSLATED BY LOOKING THROUGH MAGIC SPECTACLES WITH HIS HEAD IN HIS HAT, NO LESS!!) is staring them right in the face.
posted by Wow on 1-26-2012 at 4:35 am