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If you missed our interview with June Casagrande, you might want to check that out here.
It could possibly help you with today’s lunchtime grammar quiz, which June designed especially for us. (Thanks June!) Today’s a special quiz because we’re giving away copies of June’s new book, Mortal Syntax 101 – Language Choices that Will Get You Clobbered by the Grammar Snobs – Even if You’re Right.
Here’s how it’ll go down: first three people to report a 100% in the comments below win a copy! That’s all there is to it. We’re counting on you guys to report your scores accurately (and what kind of _floss reader would lie about such a thing anyway, right?).
Good luck to all you word-geeks in the blog.
Comments (54)
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I only got the modal verb question because of my studies in the German language!
posted by Jenny on 6-13-2008 at 10:40 am
I got 33%
I think I should win a copy of the book because I need the help :D
posted by Clotho on 6-13-2008 at 10:43 am
Holy cow, I only got one right! I truly believed I had at least slightly above average grammar skills. I am ashamed. I agree with Clotho, I need the book so I can improve!
posted by Jill on 6-13-2008 at 10:50 am
20%
ouch
posted by Amy on 6-13-2008 at 10:54 am
20% for me, too. Obviously not a grammar snob! :)
posted by Aunt Shell on 6-13-2008 at 10:58 am
Score: 90% (9 out of 10)
That’s pasted directly from the quiz. My objection is that the one I got wrong was question 3 in which the correct answer given was “e. all of the above” when option d was “none of the above.” It’s not possible for all of the answers to be correct and incorrect at the same time. I want the book.
posted by Julie on 6-13-2008 at 11:00 am
40%…eesh. And I have a BA in English..and I only graduated a year ago.
Thanks, college.
posted by Caitlin on 6-13-2008 at 11:06 am
“To boldly go where no man has gone before” is grammatically incorrect because it is not a sentence.
posted by Peter on 6-13-2008 at 11:06 am
90% This sucks, I was sure I had them all…guess I should never get too full of myself.
posted by Nick on 6-13-2008 at 11:07 am
30% – and I correct everyone I know – (Perhaps time for a new hobby).
posted by susan on 6-13-2008 at 11:10 am
Oh my gosh, 30%?!? That is crazy! And by the way, I stand by my decision that a split infinitive is incorrect.
posted by Liz on 6-13-2008 at 11:19 am
I forfeit my English degree – I got a big fat ZERO!!! My coworkers must be wondering what all the gasping and muttering is about.
posted by Julie on 6-13-2008 at 11:21 am
Ouch. 10%. And like Jenny, I attribute that success to taking German.
My girlfriend always mocks me for not taking a language like Spanish that I could actually use, well who’s laughing now?
posted by Kevin on 6-13-2008 at 11:26 am
good point julie. you win our first book. two left!
posted by David K. Israel on 6-13-2008 at 11:29 am
I nailed it! 100% I had to guess on a couple, but I got them.
posted by Eric Y. on 6-13-2008 at 11:35 am
70% — not too bad. I missed 5 (I feel bad), 7 (It is you…) and 8 (A’s and B’s, although I would argue that “A’s and Bs” is not correct just for consistency’s sake).
posted by Jeff on 6-13-2008 at 11:41 am
I got only 30%.
Never claimed to be very good at grammar, but better at math: how did Clotho get 33%??
posted by Betsy on 6-13-2008 at 11:49 am
That used up a lot of brain power, bringing me back to learning the second languages…100%, but now my brain is tired!
posted by Jennifer on 6-13-2008 at 11:51 am
I got 100% Woo!
posted by Josiah on 6-13-2008 at 11:55 am
10%, yeesh. that has to be my worst quiz score.
posted by Grant on 6-13-2008 at 11:55 am
I’m not sure whether it’s technically incorrect, but “to boldly go where no man has gone before” is a pleonasm.
posted by Dan on 6-13-2008 at 12:00 pm
Score: 70% (7 out of 10) WOW!!
I did not win, but I feel so smart. My genius husband is always correcting my grammar. Apparently I have been listening and may have learned a few things about grammar over the years.
posted by Mrs. Fox on 6-13-2008 at 12:11 pm
egads 20%!
Peter, I agree. “To boldly go where no man has gone before” is a sentence fragment. That would have taken me to a whopping 30%.
posted by Debi on 6-13-2008 at 12:18 pm
:( Is there any way I can weasel a book out of the situation since I was “technically” the third person to get a 100%? I understand if not… Pretty please? :D
posted by josiah on 6-13-2008 at 12:19 pm
20 percent. 20 percent?!?!? I stand by that 20 percent, though — I am a slave to the AP Stylebook and with that as my basis, I was correct in at least six of the questions I got wrong.
Fewer—items you can physically count (like grocery items)
Less—something measured in bulk or quantity (like water)
If my fiance scores higher than I do on this, though, I will never hear the end of it every time I give him a lecture about “that” vs. “which” or the fact that “media” is a plural noun…
posted by Emily on 6-13-2008 at 12:27 pm
Score: 10% (1 out of 10) haha, rock.
I have a question though. In the sentence “I will hopefully see you tomorrow,” is hopefully really acting as an adverb? Because, the way I see it, I am not going to see you with hope – hope does not describe how I will see you. Rather, a better way to say it would be “I hope I see you tomorrow.” Does this make a difference in the word’s status as an adverb in the sentence?
posted by Christy on 6-13-2008 at 1:09 pm
i got 100%! … after taking it twice.
posted by iB2QUIK2c on 6-13-2008 at 1:33 pm
I’m no grammar snob, so my healthy 50% score caused some minor inter-office gloating.
posted by cat on 6-13-2008 at 1:38 pm
I got 70%, which is lower than I expected going in, but ouch, it was tricky. The ones I missed were ones I knew I might miss because of all the “a and b, all of the above” type stuff (which by the way I HATE on quizzes, thanks a lot!) so I don’t feel too bad.
posted by Celeste M. on 6-13-2008 at 1:57 pm
70%, but I take issue with the answers where “All are acceptable” was not the correct answer. It depends on where you stand as a linguist. If you are a prescriptivist, then you get all wrapped up in the rules. But like me, taking a descriptive approach to English, and focusing on how English is Spoken by real people in lots of different places, you realize that even though some phrases and word combinations don’t follow these old, stodgy, rules. The point of language is communication, and the idea that is being conveyed is still understood by whomever it is being conveyed to. That’s why English is a thriving, dynamic language. It can adapt to change, and still maintain it’s communicative attributes unlike Latin or Greek, which could not.
posted by Vankook on 6-13-2008 at 2:14 pm
Dang! No book for me, with only 20%. And I got all A’s (As? Ayes? aies?) in high school grammar.
Is there a makeup exam — or are y’all grading on the curve?
posted by buddz on 6-13-2008 at 2:39 pm
Josiah: Yes. E-mail me a mailing address and junetcn@aol.com and I’ll mail you a book! (Assuming David hasn’t agreed to already.)
Christy: Adverbs don’t just modify actions. Sentence adverbs modify whole ideas or sentences. For example, the “frankly” in, “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.” And they can at times appear mid-sentence.
Liz: I discuss the “split infinitive” in my book. I consulted 14 sources. There isn’t one among them that considers the “split infinitive” a no-no.
Peter and Debi: Hmmm. You have a point. The question was trying to trap people who believe you can’t “split an infinitive,” but the wording didn’t make clear whether it was supposed to be a complete and grammatical sentence.
Emily: Often these cases are mere disputes over authority. When AP disagrees with Chicago, who’s to say who’s right? However, when AP disagrees not with a competing style guide but with a usage guide, that changes things. AP’s stated purpose is not to serve as a universal grammar authority. Its purpose is to provide consistency guidelines and some snippets of grammar for use within specific publications. In other words, it’s not written for everyone. Usage guides such as “Garner’s,” on the other hand, attempt to serve a universal audience. They also focus much more strongly on grammar than on matters such as whether you should spell out numbers or write them as numerals. Therefore, AP is not a final source of “right” and “wrong” answers – nor does it even claim to be. (In fact it’s considered by many to be wrong on a number of things, including its distinction between “that” and “which.”)
Vanook: Even the most accepting descriptivists I know of (and I consider myself one of their followers) concede that some things are in fact ungrammatical/incorrect. (I realize that may not be exactly what you’re trying to say, but I weigh in the most liberal descriptivist authorities in my positions, and their positions are reflected here.)
posted by June Casagrande on 6-13-2008 at 3:04 pm
Aw I only made it to 50% but that’s pretty good I guess. =P
posted by Air on 6-13-2008 at 5:01 pm
Ouch. 40 percent.
posted by Kaitie on 6-13-2008 at 5:03 pm
Sister Lourdes will not be happy with me, I only got 3 right. Which, as I recall, was my average in her class. My knuckles still hurt.
posted by Don on 6-13-2008 at 5:12 pm
There is no way I am posting my score here! And susan, I feel your pain–I will (try to) never correct someone else’s grammar again.
(Coolest ReCAPTCHA ever: von possible)
posted by adrienne on 6-13-2008 at 5:48 pm
30%. Thank you, Honors English.
posted by Isaac on 6-13-2008 at 7:42 pm
10% !!! I didn’t even recognize a lot of the words in the questions. Wow, I need to brush up on my grammar. Thanks for the reality check.
posted by Eric on 6-13-2008 at 10:04 pm
My quibble with this quiz is that something that is ‘acceptable’ is not necessarily ‘correct.’
Emily, I agree with your on the AP Stylebook. That thing was my bible for four years of journalism school. But we have to remember that it was created for ease of use in newspapers, where space is a premium and consistency is key to the general population’s understanding of the material.
posted by Lindsey on 6-14-2008 at 10:51 am
ewww! I never even got one right…(how’s that for poor grammer!) My score was zero, apparantly I have a thing or two to learn yet!
posted by Sandie on 6-14-2008 at 12:24 pm
Yikes….I’m an English teacher and I bombed it. In my defense, I haven’t taught a grammar class in years, but still – you’d think I would’ve done an itty bit better.
posted by Jen on 6-14-2008 at 12:32 pm
Yikes – 30%, and I teach grammar to fifth graders. In my defense, it’s hard enough just getting them past nouns and verbs.
posted by Jill on 6-14-2008 at 12:49 pm
I got 60%, which I was embarrassed about at first but feel better having read all the responses. (I overthought the adverb one.) I’m especially glad to be supported on the split-infinitive point; it really shouldn’t even be an issue.
posted by Rinaldo on 6-14-2008 at 3:59 pm
I don’t see how you can claim that descriptivists are wrong when you’re also claiming that split infinitives are grammatical and that apostrophes may be used in plural nouns.
posted by DensityDuck on 6-14-2008 at 10:53 pm
Wow. The errors in this quiz were remarkable. This might be the worst MF quiz I’ve seen.
#2: “Both are acceptable (”An” is used before vowel sounds. “Historic,” however, is a gray area. Some people either don’t pronounce the h or they muffle it so much as to render it almost silent. Others say that any word that starts with h but takes its stress on the second syllable — his-TOR-ic — can and should take “an” instead of “a.” However, most stylebooks advocate “a historic.”)”
Just because some pronounce it differently does not mean they are pronouncing it correctly. Do you have a citation that says “a historic” is correct?
#6: “Correct answer:
Our coalition will work with whoever wins the election. (A lot of people who know how to use “whom” get tripped up in this situation. Yes, “whom” and “whomever” are object forms. And yes, it seems that our preposition “with” requires an object such as “whomever.”
Again, what is the citation for this? You can just as easily say that every phrase needs an object, that is, that the prepositional phrase beginning “with” must have an object, and that object must be “whomever.” Not only that, but the prep phrase takes precedence, because it appears before the subjective clause. Put it this way: If you take that clause out of the prepositional phrase, you can’t just substitute another subject: “I worked with he.” You have to use an object, ergo, “whomever” is right.
#7: It is you who are the smart one.
This is clearly insane. No one would ever say this; “who” does not replace “you,” since they’re both in the sentence. The verb isn’t determined by “you” in this case, it’s determined by “one”; it would be different if the sentence were “It is dogs who are the smart ones.”
#8: All are acceptable. (Apostrophes are best known for forming possessives and contractions. But, a lot of experts say they have another job: They can also be used whenever they’re needed to avoid confusion.
Again, this makes little sense, and this is exactly why so many people throw in apostrophes indiscriminately. Please stop spreading this myth.
“As” in the middle of a sentence is clearly NOT a word. It’s a plural. It does not get an apostrophe, and it looks silly with one.
I see the average result for this “quiz” was 27%. Did it occur to you that the reason might be that the quiz was, you know, incorrect?
(I know this sounds bitter – I am bitter! I should have done better, and I missed ones I should have gotten.)
posted by Dan on 6-15-2008 at 2:11 pm
As a steady reader of grammarphobia.com, I don’t think Ms Casagrande is the final authority. I don’t think anyone is!
posted by Alice on 6-15-2008 at 3:23 pm
I have a question about #7:
[...]“who” in such cases takes the same form as the word it refers to. “You are the smart one,” therefore, “It is you who are the smart one.”
I can’t imagine saying “it is I who am the smart one”.
Am I wrong? Or is there more to this explanation?
posted by Mike D on 6-15-2008 at 8:46 pm
Thanks Dan….I wanted to say most of that, but was lazy. Thanks for doing it for me.
I’m sad I only got 20%, but I definitely think that at least part of that is because of poor test writing. I’m going with 40%.
And absolutely no offense, but some people who are amazingly good at knowing things are not so great at writing tests. I went to a public university. I know how that goes.
posted by Amanda on 6-15-2008 at 8:52 pm
As a journalist, I’ve had to forfeit many arguments about grammar simply because the majority of readers would not understand what I was saying if I used correct grammar. This is where the rule about confusion without an apostrophe certainly applies – particularly as some sub-editing style guides suggest every word in a headline should begin with a capital letter – ‘As’ could definitely confuse a reader. Dan, I think you should just chill… because something sounds ‘insane’ to you , it doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Just like someone pronouncing historic without the ‘h’ sound is insane to me – but then, I’m English.
For the record, I got 60%.
posted by dangermouse on 6-15-2008 at 9:23 pm
1. “However” is a conjunction, not an adverb.
2. The answer uses the term “vowel sound,” which is redundant because a vowel is a sound, not a letter (unless you’re in elementary school and learning the alphabet and spelling). Is this test for elementary school students?
9. This question is about vocabulary, not grammar. It tests not if one knows how to use language grammatically but rather if one knows the jargon (”modal auxiliary”) grammarians use.
posted by John on 6-15-2008 at 10:02 pm
@John
“However” isn’t exactly a conjunction. “However” is a conjunctive adverb.
@Dan
Well said. The quiz was pretty poorly constructed, and the answers ridiculously permissive. The answer about the letter grades using apostrophes bothered me in particular because the “correct” answer contains an inconsistency, which is worse than poor grammar.
posted by Bob on 6-16-2008 at 8:37 am
Am I the only one who was perturbed by the repeated use of the word grammatical when the meaning was clearly grammatically correct?
Don’t ask me if a phrase is grammatical! Ask if it’s grammatically correct.
Grammatical is something of or pertaining to grammar…so to ask if a phrase is grammatical has very little meaning.
Am I wrong?
posted by RachelC on 6-16-2008 at 12:54 pm
I got 60 percent on the quiz. I was about to say 60 percent right–but I don’t agree that all of her answers are the right ones. She quotes Bryan Garner for #7, but she doesn’t bother quoting him for #2.
posted by GeorgeH on 6-17-2008 at 2:10 pm
Unbelievable! I really thought I’d do better. I got 30 percent. Yep, I really could do with a copy of the book.
Vee
posted by Vera Lynne on 6-17-2008 at 7:55 pm