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I have very little perspective of what’s going on in Georgia. I’ve seen that Russia is pulling out troops by Friday. But I’m still confused about the situation. Most news sources seem to be placing the blame on Russia, and highlighting America’s ready defense of Georgia. Not only has the U.S. administration sent people over there to help difffuse the situation, but both potential future administrations have sent people over there. And politicians all seem to be talking about kicking Russia out of the G8. Also, they’re letting the superpower know that the U.S. is placing defense missiles very close to the Russian border just in case. These missiles, of course, are “aimed at no one.”
Interestingly, former Soviet Union president (and former Pizza Hut spokesman) Mikhail Gorbachev has weighed in with an op-ed in the New York Times, where he scolds the press for its inability to report the situation objectively, and comes to Russia’s defense.
“Russia did not want this crisis. The Russian leadership is in a strong enough position domestically; it did not need a little victorious war. Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili.”
Since I have no sense of what’s actually going on there, I’m not espousing any point of view. It’s just fascinating to read a very different (and very strong) take from someone who’s been watching this situation from across the aisle.
Click here to see the full editorial. Thanks Lizzie!
“Russia was dragged into the fray by the recklessness of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili”
Really? I would counter that Georgia was dragged in by the recklessness of South Ossetia’s seperatists which are encouraged from Moscow. Since when is it Russia’s right or responsibility to resolve an internal Georgian conflict? They didnt make any diplomatic effort whatsoever, they just rolled in tanks and troops.
People say this is no different from the US invading Iraq. Two key differences: Georgia wasn’t engaged in genocide with chemical weapons, and Georgia wasnt given a warning. Hussein had the opportunity to resign, with a timeline, and he refused to comply.
posted by Chris on 8-20-2008 at 1:54 pm
Wow, Chris. Good to know that you are one of 30 people who still feel that the Iraq war was justified. Way to stick to your guns…shows real determination (as well as a few other things).
As for the Georgia/Russia conflict, if the Bush administration hadn’t been parading around with puffed out chests claiming that the US “always fights for its friends,” maybe Georgia wouldn’t have felt it necessary to launch an attack on South Ossentia, which gave Russia a reason to retaliate. I’d say Russia’s reason for a counterattack is much more justified than the US’s presence in Iraq, as Georgia was clearly attacking South Ossentia. Remind me, Chris, how many WMD’s did we find in Iraq?
posted by cz on 8-20-2008 at 2:08 pm
Its getting ugly real fast in here! I am going to be Sarkozy here! Ossetia seperatists are the root of the issue and Russia has allied with them. Georgia made the first move and Russia moved. Russia was too aggressive in there counterattack, but Georgia had been warned before by Russia. So to say they were not warned is not correct. I am not going to play the U.S. card, but the situation is entirely unique and doesn’t have anything to do with this situation.
posted by Marty on 8-20-2008 at 4:03 pm
Yes, cz, the Iraq War was justified. When was the last terrorist attack on a non-military U.S. interest?
Russia is out of line and the Ossetians are fools. The Russians are happy to exploit the tensions between the Ossetians and the Georgians because of the long-term benefits for them: intimidating neighbors and creating bargaining chips. South Ossetia is just going to end up as a future Chechnya.
posted by Tom on 8-20-2008 at 9:46 pm
Gosh cz, I dont know..let me check and see how many times I state that the Iraq war was justified…hmmm, it appears to be ZERO. I never said that, or even implied it. I state that the two are not a fair comparison and that’s all I said. Try just reading the lines and not between them.
South Ossetia is part of Georgia, so Russia has no business even being involved. If Alaska took up arms and decided it wanted to be part of Russia and the US sent troops in to secure it’s territorial integrity, would Russia be justified in invading? The South Ossetian seperatists are effectively criminals, they’ve had more than enough time to submit to Georgian rule, and Georgia has every right to bring them to justice.
Russia was not attacked, so how exactly is a Russian counter-attack justified? (the very term counter-attack is innacurate).
posted by Chris on 8-21-2008 at 9:37 am
Hey Tom, when was the last time an Iraqi terrorist attacked a non-military U.S. interest? Using your logic, we should be attacking Saudi Arabia.
It’s time the US stopped trying to be the world’s police force. We aren’t getting paid for it and we always seem to lose face.
posted by Bromodrosis on 8-21-2008 at 10:00 am
heyy…is chris your real name?? or are you really GEORGE BUSH???
i mean how hypocritical can you americans be..you poke your noses into the internal affairs of every other country in the world, and when russia does something similar in its own backyard, you act as if the world’s gonna end..just because you possess weapons of mass destruction doesn’t mean you can dictate your stupid policies to every nation…grow up fools…AND THE IRAQ WAR WAS ABOUT OIL.PERIOD.No matter what excuses you feed the rest of the world…
posted by vivek on 8-21-2008 at 11:13 am
They attacked because they can. Without real leadership and direction in world affairs for the last 16 years (yes, 16, at least), not only does the rest of the world not respect us, they’re no longer afraid of us. Not the Russians, not the Chinese, not the Saudis. Even the Iraqis have said they want us out.
posted by Jim on 8-21-2008 at 11:42 am
@vivek
The Iraq war was about oil eh? Well, we sure as hell aren’t seeing it over here. As a matter of fact, ever since the Iraq war oil prices have only gone up for everyone (thats the effect blowing up pipelines typically has).
I’m not defending the war or condemning it - I’m just sick of hearing it was all for oil. Oil that the U.S. has not received a single drop of, nor will, because the current Iraqi government controls that.
posted by Anthony on 8-21-2008 at 11:57 am
Here’s really whats going on:
If you go to youtube, and search for Fox Georgia Interview. The fox channel had an interview with a girl from san francisco who was in Georgia, at the time of the attacks. Very interesting perspective!!
Also you have to take into account, that the US has an Oil Pipeline running through Georgia, this is the only oil pipe line that doesn’t pass through the middle east, Iran, or Russia. And it runs right along the border of South Ossetia (sp). If you think back over the past year or so, we’ve had a lot of interaction with Georgia, including a visit by President Bush there, to be proud of their “sovreignity”.
Now, think of the situation with Kosovo, who broke free of Serbia with a lot of international support. Russia didn’t like this, and protested the recognition of the new state. The international forum was warned that a poor precedent was being set here. If you notice, now what Russia did by recognizing the sovreignity of South Ossetia and stepping up to protect them when they were attacked… is not much different than what the rest of Europe and Nato did for Kosovo is it?
posted by Bilal on 8-21-2008 at 2:16 pm
Here’s really whats going on:
If you go to youtube, and search for Fox Georgia Interview. The fox channel had an interview with a girl from san francisco who was in Georgia, at the time of the attacks. Very interesting perspective!!
Also you have to take into account, that the US has an Oil Pipeline running through Georgia, this is the only oil pipe line that doesn’t pass through the middle east, Iran, or Russia. And it runs right along the border of South Ossetia (sp). If you think back over the past year or so, we’ve had a lot of interaction with Georgia, including a visit by President Bush there, to be proud of their “sovreignity”.
Now, think of the situation with Kosovo, who broke free of Serbia with a lot of international support. Russia didn’t like this, and protested the recognition of the new state. The international forum was warned that a poor precedent was being set here. If you notice, now what Russia did by recognizing the sovreignity of South Ossetia and stepping up to protect them when they were attacked… is not much different than what the rest of Europe and Nato did for Kosovo is it?
posted by Bilal on 8-21-2008 at 2:17 pm
With regards to the Iraq war being about Oil..
A few points as well..
Operation Iraqi Liberation (notice the acronym)
Now a few months ago, the iraqi government issued no - bid contracts to 5 major firms, to re-develop the oil pumping processes in Iraq. 4 of these firms were major US firms and the 5th was BP (British Petroleum)… the entire world was hoping to bid on these contracts, including India, China, Russia, Brazil.(BRIC for those familiar with economics of the world right now)
These contracts are only for 2 years but are for infrastructure development, once their’s a sizeable investment, the country will never be able to get these countries out of their oil fields!
Every other player who tries to bid at the end of these 2 years will have to be able to pay off the money invested by these firms to take over, since no one will be able to low ball enough, they’ll be settled in for the looong term.
posted by Bilal on 8-21-2008 at 2:34 pm
I have to agree with Chris that this response by Russia isn’t entirely comparable to the Iraq War. While Saakashvili has his problems, he’s no Saddam. And Georgia is a stable, democratic nation, not an oppressive dictatorship. Russia, moreover, has a long history of antagonizing Georgia. I’m not one who ever bought into the Bush rhetoric about Iraq or thought that invading Iraq was good or right. But Iraq is no Georgia, and the United States is no Russia.
I’ve written up a response to Gorbachev’s editorial at my blog that might help clarify a few things about this conflict, if anyone is interested. I see there are no links allowed, but googling “Mild Mannered Musings” will point you to the right page.
posted by Christopher Smith on 8-21-2008 at 7:30 pm